Brewing Success with Troy Sandidge: The Evolving Role of CMOs and Community Building

What does it take to succeed as a modern CMO? In this episode of Pipeline Brew, Matt is joined by Troy Sandidge to discuss how marketing leaders can stay relevant in an era of shifting playbooks, AI disruption, and growing pressure to deliver both brand and demand.

Troy is the Chief Strategist and Founder of Strategy Hackers, a strategic marketing consultancy that builds sustainable, scalable, and profitable strategies to drive engagement, advocacy, and revenue growth. Together, Troy and Matt explore the real challenges CMOs face right now including outdated playbooks, pressure to master AI, and the balancing act between vision and execution. 

Additionally, you’ll hear what it takes to tackle these challenges, and where you should be focusing your efforts most. Troy advocates for further investments into your brand and most importantly, your community. He believes real, authentic community building serves as a premium insurance policy when faced with market uncertainty. 

Known as the Strategy Hacker®, Troy Sandidge is an award winning growth strategist specializing in building sustainable, scalable, and profitable strategies, systems, and solutions for world-class brands,  generating over $175 Million in client revenue and successfully launching 35+ brands worldwide.

The 5x Agency Builder, 4x CMO, 3x Startup Founder, 2x COO, Board Advisor, Fractional CMO, Keynote Speaker, Investor, Author, & Marketing Consultant brings over 15 years of experience infusing psychology, sociology, business anthropology, cultural ethnography, and behavior science with growth marketing, demand gen, go-to-market, sales enablement, brand positioning, content marketing, and community development strategies helping brands achieve next level results using what he refers to as Conscious Growth Pathways™.

[00:00:00] Matt Hummel: Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Pipeline Brew, the podcast that meets at the intersection of people and pipeline. We’re bringing you fun yet insightful conversations where you’ll not only hear from marketing experts, but also get to know them as well.

[00:00:22] Matt Hummel: Hey everyone. Today I’m super excited to be joined by Troy Sandidge. Troy is the Chief strategist and founder of Strategy Hackers, a strategic marketing consultancy that builds sustainable, scalable, and profitable strategies. I. To drive engagement, advocacy, and revenue growth. Today, Troy’s joining us to talk about the evolving role of CMOs, balancing brand with demand, and why building community might just be your best marketing insurance policy.

[00:00:46] Matt Hummel: Troy, welcome to the show. How are you today,

[00:00:49] Troy Sandidge: Matt? I am so excited to be on the show. Yeah, and I know people say that cliche, but I’ve been listening to episodes. I’m legit excited that we had to touch base a while back, touch [00:01:00] base in the green room if y’all missed it. That’s part of the team, part of the amazement.

[00:01:03] Troy Sandidge: So I’m really happy to be here.

[00:01:05] Matt Hummel: Well, I appreciate that and I share the same excitement. Also, a few minutes ago I found out we share a mutual love and appreciation for basketball. So you know, we’re recording this the night after Indiana won game one of the NBA finals. Obviously there’s a lot left to go if you’re an Indiana fan.

[00:01:23] Matt Hummel: But couldn’t have asked for a better start to the series. We believe. We believe. There you go. I’m gonna start calling them the 48 minute pacers. They truly are. Well, you mentioned you’ve listened to some episodes before, so you know the drill. We like to start off each episode with a little bit of an icebreaker to get the ball rolling.

[00:01:40] Matt Hummel: So with that. Troy, what is your go-to beverage when you eat a little? Pick me up.

[00:01:45] Troy Sandidge: You know, as of recently, op Oh yeah. Uh, I’m not a trendy, whatever, but you know, it, it goes down easy and it’s good for your gut. So mop out healthy alternatives.

[00:01:58] Matt Hummel: Now remind me, op, is that the one that [00:02:00] has some caffeine in it?

[00:02:01] Matt Hummel: No, it does not have caffeine in it. Okay. It’s just, it’s just like a cleaner soda, a base

[00:02:05] Troy Sandidge: with just prebiotics and stuff like that. And what’s your go-to flavor? Oh, grape. The hands down. That’s the best flavor. I don’t care what of says, I’ve tried ’em all. Grape is the best flavor. Hands down.

[00:02:16] Matt Hummel: Well, I’ve not tried grape, so I’m gonna have to pick one of those up and prove your theory to be true.

[00:02:20] Matt Hummel: So, alright. Tropical

[00:02:21] Troy Sandidge: may be the second one for

[00:02:22] Matt Hummel: sure. Grape and then tropical. Alright, well if you’ve also listened, you know, I’m still looking for a sponsor. So OP with their excellent flavors, grape, and what was the second flavor? Tropical. Tropical might be just the let’s the sponsor with the bunch for uss, for Entrepreneurs

[00:02:37] Troy Sandidge: and CMOs.

[00:02:38] Troy Sandidge: You never know.

[00:02:39] Matt Hummel: I love it. Well, Troy, before we get into what you’re up to today, I’d love, you know, for you to tell me and the audience a little bit more about yourself, your passions and your background.

[00:02:48] Troy Sandidge: Oh

[00:02:48] Matt Hummel: my gosh.

[00:02:48] Troy Sandidge: I, I think for me, I’ve been in the game for 15 years in marketing. I’m a millennial who was before social, became the thing and then transitioned to now it’s everything.

[00:02:59] Troy Sandidge: [00:03:00] So we’re still here, we’re still thriving, surviving, and adjusting. I’ve done everything, every role in the marketing capacity. I’ve worked in nonprofit startups, I even worked in politics and a whole bunch of things that I think when you consider my career journey, it’s just like what is going on? But the core principle is connecting humans to an idea that converts, that connects, that drives whatever desirable outcome it is.

[00:03:25] Troy Sandidge: And so I’ve been blessed and honored to navigate my career and it’s been pretty fun.

[00:03:29] Matt Hummel: That’s awesome. Well, I forgot you spent some time in nonprofit too. I had a little time in my career at working for nonprofit tech and talk about a different world that you operate in, just in general, but as a marketer, really.

[00:03:39] Matt Hummel: I mean, it is, talk about having to really empathize and put yourself in the shoes of the buyer For sure. I’d love to hear kind of as part of your journey, what have been some of those big lessons or key lessons you’ve learned along the way? Any, any aha moments you’ve had?

[00:03:54] Troy Sandidge: You know, I’ve been marinated on that and I think one of the biggest things, and, and I am known at the strategy [00:04:00] hacker, but I will say that, you know, strategy isn’t about knowing everything of what to do is knowing what not to do.

[00:04:06] Troy Sandidge: And I think as you expand your career and your horizons and you hit different milestones, you realize there’s so much more we just shouldn’t be doing. Versus just trying to fill in a spot, be very busy body, you know, what’s actually the applicable steps we need to do? What are the things we just need to eliminate off the table and not even consider, not even waste time, money, energy, budget on whatsoever.

[00:04:31] Troy Sandidge: And I think that takes experience. That takes really looking at things from a 50,000 level view of, you know, I need to think about what more not to do from this jump versus all the endless possibilities I can do because that limits your scope and ability. Man, that’s so

[00:04:45] Matt Hummel: good. I feel like as marketers we live in this more, more, more world and we’re probably our own worst enemy in this.

[00:04:50] Matt Hummel: And thankfully, I had a great boss a number of years ago who was very adamant about, you know, every quarter or every six months, you know, [00:05:00] when you’re doing your new planning, don’t just look at what else you should be doing based on. Optimizing performance of campaigns or where the market’s going, but literally have a list of start, stop, improve or continue.

[00:05:11] Matt Hummel: And, and the stopping to me was that aha moment for me too, where it’s, it was just that we don’t need to be doing everything. It doesn’t always have to be additive. We don’t, you know, we need to, we need, whether it’s doing last, but doing it better or just, just stop because it’s just creating noise.

[00:05:26] Troy Sandidge: And I wanna say this too, ’cause I was talking to someone else about it.

[00:05:29] Troy Sandidge: You know, a common question especially, and we can talk about it, but the market. It’s terrible. Marketers are dealing with a lot. It’s just a lot of layoffs. A lot of things happen. We are acknowledging that and we know it. It’s challenging, but I think sometimes people, when they’re trying to make the jump from, let’s say a director of marketing level to the CMO level, these are the conversations you need to elevate.

[00:05:49] Troy Sandidge: Because if you’re still stuck on just doing an action and execution only, or that’s your go-to. You’re still on the front lines. You’re not thinking like a [00:06:00] generalist. You’re not taking a step back and seeing the bigger picture. Yes, there’s still executive components you need to do or maybe should still do, but you have to take a step back and really think strategically.

[00:06:11] Troy Sandidge: Now, when I say strategy, that doesn’t mean just writing a plan and doing numbers and making sure we’re good for Q4 with rev ops and things like that. No, it’s more granular than that. More lateral, too. And I think that’s a hard thing in any level for marketers to make that shift because you’re so used to being the go-to doer that you’re not even take a step to be the strategist that you need your organization to be.

[00:06:34] Matt Hummel: That’s such a great point. I feel like we could spend the entire time talking about what does strategy actually mean? And is strategy the easy part, the hard part, or you know, is the actual execution around the strategy. What is really at the crux of it? But I digress. So I want to pick up and, and, and jump into the conversation around CMOs.

[00:06:53] Matt Hummel: It’s something that you’ve got a great point of view on. You’ve had experience working with a number of them and, and I think your insights [00:07:00] across even the different types of companies that CMOs sit in is, I found quite fascinating in getting to know you. So, you know, from that tight budgets, heightened expectations in my mind, it’s a tough place for CMOs right now.

[00:07:12] Matt Hummel: What do you think the landscape looks like for CMOs today?

[00:07:15] Troy Sandidge: It is dramatically changing. I think a lot of CMOs, if you’re listening, you’re in shock. You might be in denial, but I’m calling you out. I’m just keeping it real. I’m diagnosing that. You’re probably in shock right now because all the playbooks, all the things that should be working are not working.

[00:07:32] Troy Sandidge: Everything is like stranger things upside down. Like it’s just like what is going on in the world? I don’t know. And I think part of the problem. Is that we are still thinking that CMOs, once you get to that title and once you’ve been in it for a minute, you’re locked in. You don’t have to adjust or do anything differently.

[00:07:52] Troy Sandidge: And unfortunately with the rise of AI, machine learning, the change in demand in the markets, the rewriting of how [00:08:00] social, digital, every. Avenue of marketing there is is literally flipping, and we’re losing the old guard of old generations in a whole new subset of generations with different demands and all looks on life and how they consume and think is changing place.

[00:08:15] Troy Sandidge: If you don’t understand what is happening and making, I don’t wanna say the word from the pandemic, but the pivots, you are gonna be in a void. And it may not hit you right now, but it may hit you soon. Or we’re seeing the domino effect of that happening. And so I think CMOs need to take a. Step back and really consider what are we really doing now and what are the either the people I need to bring in, the consultants, the technology, or what do I need to now learn and evolve to maintain what I have or grow and scale with where we’re trying to go.

[00:08:46] Matt Hummel: I appreciate that last point, especially because as you started to answer that, my mind went to. I’m a CMO. What does that mean for me? Does that mean that I literally need to fundamentally learn an entire new playbook and or does that mean that I need [00:09:00] to readjust the way that I think about the role and how I surround myself with the right people who can help evolve us, but, but create the framework and the right approach so that it’s not, well, hey, I’m gonna bring in my old playbook, but hey, I’ve sat in this seat before.

[00:09:14] Matt Hummel: I understand. There’s, in my mind, there’s nuances of a CMO role that will probably never change. Understanding how to align marketing to the overall strategy to be a driver of growth and understand where the market’s going, to be the storyteller. But do I fundamentally have to go and learn everything, AI as an example, or do I need to make sure that I’m surrounding myself and creating the capacity?

[00:09:37] Matt Hummel: That’s the word I was looking for, the capacity to really be able to evolve in the direction the world’s headed.

[00:09:42] Troy Sandidge: I always say this, you have four currencies, time, money, knowledge, and skill. And I think the CMOs need to understand how do we use these levers in conjunction to what we’re trying to do. When you’re pre level, obviously time is the immediate exchange.

[00:09:57] Troy Sandidge: It’s the easiest, the quickest, it’s what you have the most [00:10:00] abundant. But as you get higher level, things get deeper. Knowledge is more critical and we’re trying to say, well, what about my skills? And if you don’t have the skills. Hey, now you’re Zo on. You’re trying to assemble the Power Rangers to go out and do what you need to do, and you’re just chilling.

[00:10:14] Troy Sandidge: And again, every CMO is different. Some CMOs still like to be in the front lines with their team. Others like to be in the background and they’re like, you know, behind the desk or something trying to figure something out. But I think nevertheless, you still have to anchor what is necessary for this market and for your particular product or service that you’re selling and pushing.

[00:10:31] Troy Sandidge: Right on.

[00:10:32] Matt Hummel: Basically, you gotta think, gotta come in and not just assume that what you’ve done in the past, the frameworks you brought in, the approach that you took is gonna work. So love it. Well, there’s a lot of noise out there. I like to call it noise. Some people call it advice. You see it from consults or thought leaders.

[00:10:48] Matt Hummel: A lot of it’s on LinkedIn. I call out in particular thought leaders or folks from agencies. Not as a way to dig, but I often think there’s a disconnect between. Understanding what? It’s easy to say [00:11:00] something from an outside point of view. Troy, as an example, before I had kids, I was the best parent out there.

[00:11:06] Matt Hummel: My kids, before I was a parent, you’d never hear them screaming in a restaurant demanding screen time. I. Oh, how that’s changed since having my own kids. Fast forward, you know, now I’m in the seat. I’m living in the realities of the marketing world and the business world that we’re operating in. Do you think there’s a disconnect between what we’re hearing from the outside point of view?

[00:11:26] Matt Hummel: Oh, everything’s broken. It’s all dead, versus the realities of what we’re feeling on the ground? Or do you think that there’s real cohesion that it’s as broken from an outside point of view as it actually is on the inside?

[00:11:38] Troy Sandidge: I think it’s perspective and perception. What is your perspective and how do people perceive you and what is the perspective you’re having with that perception?

[00:11:47] Troy Sandidge: So me, I think there’s some truth on both sides. Four times CMO, two times COO in a lot of different markets. I’m not just a one trained pony of CMO of one particular industry for 20 years. No dick just saying multiply. I [00:12:00] think it is broken in some regards, but also the algorithm fans, the flames a lot. Yes.

[00:12:10] Troy Sandidge: We gotta call that out too. If the top people wanna stir a pot because maybe they’re not as relevant anymore, what are they gonna do? Create controversy to spark and people are gonna shift gears and like, oh my goodness, so-and-so said this. That means I’m gonna change all these things to buy their book, to buy, their courses to buy.

[00:12:26] Troy Sandidge: And I can’t hate the game. You’re using the algorithm. I understand that. But for those who are listening to watching, I’m sure you have a he sense of integrity. You have a good discernment of what’s real and what’s not. ’cause you’ve been in the game. You listen to Matt, you know what’s going on, and I’m sure we’re friends now.

[00:12:41] Troy Sandidge: We understand this. You have to admit there is some things that are broken, but I don’t think it’s entirely obsolete. I don’t think it’s a thano snap moment here, but, but I do think there’s some time that we need to pause and reflect on what is really going on because this has been a continuous, slow [00:13:00] build.

[00:13:00] Troy Sandidge: Pre pandemic. And I think now we’re starting to see a lot more of the dominoes fall than what we’re used to. Uh, and I’ll say this too, you know, I thought it was weird that, you know, Microsoft did a layoff and amazingly think of the, one of the people who got laid off was the director of artificial Yes.

[00:13:20] Troy Sandidge: Intelligence. So I’m sure running that parallel CMOs, you’re feeling also like, what do I need to do to maintain what I have? If. The director of AI is laid off because AI is so good. Now, where do we go with AI for CMOs? How do we navigate that? That can spark a lot of craziness and a lot of controversy and confusion.

[00:13:44] Troy Sandidge: But the great thing about CMOs, at the end of the day, you all know how to calm the chaos. You do it every day between sales, marketing executives, down the, the funnel and the pipelines. There’s endless amount of chaos and you’re the calm [00:14:00] in the storm. So lean in on that because you’re gonna need that during this period.

[00:14:04] Matt Hummel: I think that’s so well said. It’s such a great thought because there’s a lot of spinning, you know, everyone’s freaking out. Whether it’s because they’re listening to outside noise or, and or because the realities of what they’re facing internally. And externally with economic uncertainty. You know, the challenge that we’re facing as sellers, the complexity of making, buying decisions, all those things.

[00:14:26] Matt Hummel: You mentioned something, you said the word obsolete when you were referring to, you know, there’s certain things that CMOs are doing that they need to bring back to life, in essence. Where do you think, if you think about those core strengths of good CMOs, you know, what are those one or two things that.

[00:14:45] Matt Hummel: Any good CMO should 100% have and bring to the table that you’ve seen demonstrated in successful CMOs?

[00:14:52] Troy Sandidge: Honestly, you have to be a visionary. I can only speak for myself and my experience. I’ve worked with and worked under CMOs that did not have [00:15:00] any vision, and so that’s very hard to run the bat with someone who is leaning on a team.

[00:15:07] Troy Sandidge: Yeah, to maybe get more specific, but they don’t have a vision. You can see it. Yeah. Deer and hairless, they don’t have it. That’s still a core principle. Not to say you have to be the most creative person on this planet, but you do need to be able to have a vision and to articulate that vision for people to understand and trust and go to bat for you.

[00:15:24] Troy Sandidge: Yeah, and I think the second thing is having the discernment and the intuition to connect to people. Mm-hmm. Because whether you believe it or not. It’s not an HR thing, it’s a people thing. CMOs, you live and die by your perception of your work and your value and the perspective you have on the audience.

[00:15:40] Troy Sandidge: And the way to do that is connecting with people internally, your employees, your contractors, externally, the customer, the client, the audience, all of it. You have to be able to connect to people and that builds the building blocks for your sustainability because you have locked into people. The people would, the right people.

[00:15:58] Troy Sandidge: Matt, I was gonna send you a [00:16:00] dm, like, Hey, this is what I’m seeing. This is what’s happening. And you’re getting the inside scoop to prepare yourself so you’re not blindsided by a shift in the marketplace. Yeah. Or whatever. But that’s by relationship. That’s building the people equity. And if you’re not able to connect and do that, you’re gonna be in a weird head space.

[00:16:18] Troy Sandidge: As a CMO, you might not be there very long if you can’t.

[00:16:21] Matt Hummel: Oh, that’s great. I think it’s, again, so well said. I was having a conversation with one of my colleagues yesterday around. She’s looking to really advance and evolve her career and take us to the next level. And we are kind of catching up on like going back in history of, you know, she mentioned she used to live in an apartment and now she’s in a home.

[00:16:38] Matt Hummel: And I started to think about the difference when you’re in an apartment versus a home. When you’re in an apartment. I. It’s all about functional living, right? You’re not making adjustments. The kitchen’s where it is, you got the certain types of appliances you have, your backyard is if you have one. What it is when you get to a house, and this is what I told her, I said, when I got into my first house, it took me a year before I sort of had this [00:17:00] moment of I.

[00:17:01] Matt Hummel: This is mine. Granted, it’s the banks, but this is mine. I can, in essence, do do with it what I want. If I don’t like my fence, I can repaint it. I can rebuild it. If I don’t like the way something operates, I can change it, I can move it. But it goes beyond that, right? Like it’s really starting to understand, okay, just ’cause you don’t like something fine.

[00:17:20] Matt Hummel: What is your vision? And so I started to walk through this path, and so when you’re sharing that visionary piece, I’m like, yes, that’s such a difference. But then it’s also being able to translate and articulate that vision in a way that inspires and use the word trust. I could not agree more. A marketer’s ability to communicate their vision and get alignment is that the foundation of trust, and I think trust is the most important thing.

[00:17:44] Matt Hummel: Then to your second point around the people and the equity, if you don’t have that. You’re not gonna go anywhere. So as someone sitting in the seat today, and I know, again, I know you have a bunch of times too, I, I just fundamentally could not agree more with what you’re saying there. So, great [00:18:00] stuff. I wanna transition to AI because, well, you’ve already touched on it, it is crazy the timeliness of the Microsoft layoffs this past week and you know, that role in particular that you highlighted.

[00:18:13] Matt Hummel: So I wanna talk about ai, but specifically in terms of operational transformation. What opportunities

[00:18:20] Troy Sandidge: are you seeing? I’m just gonna keep it as 100 as they say. I’m not gonna give you no Chad GBT prompts. You can feed on that LinkedIn thought leadership fodder all day long. That doesn’t matter. I’m not gonna do that.

[00:18:33] Troy Sandidge: My anchor point is more how do we apply and what’s applicable, because that’s more tangible to you all. Who are listening and engaging, and I think the number one thing is embracing the next level of automation. Tell me more about that. Yeah, this is definitely for those who may be. On the compasses of making a shifts in new technology in their tech stack and things like that, you have to consider.

[00:18:54] Troy Sandidge: How does your tech stack navigate things for automation? Yes. Maybe some of your custom [00:19:00] platforms that you use for SMS, email outreach and tangent, which sales or community management has an AI esque component to it to integrate, but is it integrated? Are you tying in, was that a Zapier and things like that.

[00:19:14] Troy Sandidge: And so I think one of the biggest things is embracing AI agents to make your stuff automatic and making sure that it all aligns with what you’re trying to do. Honestly, however long you’ve been in marketing, no matter what title, you spend a lot of time doing a lot of useless stuff. And if we could cut some of that out to create even the bandwidth to think of what’s next, a more time to think of another solution and avoid another meeting, avoid another email.

[00:19:41] Troy Sandidge: Send out, avoid another playbook, disaster because our stuff is not in sync, that we’re getting more optimized reporting so we can see what’s going on based off this, that we can send these messages up much more efficiently. Yes, it is maybe a little bit scaring, especially if you’re type A and you need to be, have full [00:20:00] control, but the market is demanding more.

[00:20:04] Troy Sandidge: The staff is getting shorter, your budgets are tighter. What’s the outlet that’s going to let the pressure out so we can breathe again? AI is gonna allow us to do that, and I’m talking generative and pragmatic. I’m talking about making sure that we’re integrated in the possible ways and optimized for better results.

[00:20:22] Troy Sandidge: Even just the redundant, simplest things that you can get off your plate and your team’s plate is gonna make your life tons and tons of easier so you can focus on the bigger picture.

[00:20:33] Matt Hummel: Well, I think that last piece is of importance too, because you know, you talk about ag AI and how marketers should be thinking about creating these workflows through the agents.

[00:20:43] Matt Hummel: If you’re a marketer. Yes, you have fewer resources, higher expectations, you know, bigger challenges and and goals. Do marketers need to be thinking this way out of necessity so that they can actually get their fundamental job done? Or do they need to be [00:21:00] thinking about this? Because if they don’t, they’re gonna bring someone else in?

[00:21:03] Matt Hummel: Who will, you know, is do they need to do the set of necessity, in other words?

[00:21:07] Troy Sandidge: Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, look at the transitions of things. There’s things that we used to not take for granted. In our vehicles that I bet you now if you went back in time and got an older line vehicle, like, what is going on?

[00:21:20] Troy Sandidge: I need to have this in my vehicle. This is where we’re at now and you can no longer hide behind. Give it time. Let’s wait till the contract’s in on our current tech stack. No, I’m sorry. This is real. This is the reality. Get on board or get left behind. Yeah. And we’ve been, and this crazy thing is marketers, we have been through this before.

[00:21:42] Troy Sandidge: This is not our first rodeo with any of this stuff. If anything, we’re the most prepared for these type of of moments. I’m not even gonna talk. We could talk about the.com era, the social media era before we’re like, is this gonna be social selling? Is this really gonna be a navigating the storytelling creative [00:22:00] boom area?

[00:22:00] Troy Sandidge: Like there’s so many moments as marketers as we’ve evolved that you know what, yeah, we need to do it now. Maybe you’re not on the compass. Maybe you weren’t on the front lines five years ago and joined the Kool-Aid, and maybe you’re now more like, I don’t know, maybe you’re now navigating a conversation with your executive to the the CTO and the COO to convince them.

[00:22:21] Troy Sandidge: Hey, I need to pay for this. This is a value, and I get that. That’s hard, but your lack of not doing it could also impact what could have been. I don’t want you to be a blockbuster that you could have been a Netflix simply because you didn’t make a simple shift. We don’t want that. We don’t want to be like, whatever happened to that one brand that was doing so well in the pandemic and now we don’t.

[00:22:41] Troy Sandidge: They’re on one hand wonder, they don’t even exist anymore because you’re that obsolete. From an operational perspective, we’re not even gonna go into the relevancy to your audience and how AI can help with that. Yeah, which is the operational perspective. It’s now, it’s what’s necessary. And if you haven’t done it, I encourage you.

[00:22:57] Troy Sandidge: I employ you to really consider [00:23:00] how do we move forward to end this year. Right.

[00:23:02] Matt Hummel: Spot on. Well, it’s funny you mentioned Blockbuster. My CRO and I were having a conversation yesterday about Blockbuster and just that same, that sort of same sentiment of like, you don’t wanna be the blockbuster of, you know, whatever industry you’re in.

[00:23:14] Matt Hummel: And I mean, I think, I think they just closed their last store, which was, which was sad ’cause Blockbuster was a big part of my childhood. In spite of the $5 late fees that were ridiculous. But I digress again, the Netflix reference, that was interesting too because, you know, Netflix has gone through evolutions in and of itself as a, as an organization and so kind of a shout out to them in, in the same vein of our discussion of they didn’t rest on their laurels, you know?

[00:23:40] Matt Hummel: Yeah. They came in and really changed the game, but then guess what? They have kept changing the game and they will no doubt continue to change the game. It’s funny, I have a good buddy who worked for them. And you know, when I first met him I was like, oh, what do you do? And he goes, I work in tech. Fast forward a few weeks later, and I’m like, Hey, who do you work for?

[00:23:56] Matt Hummel: And he said, Netflix. I’m like, oh, is Netflix [00:24:00] a tech company? I don’t know how, maybe I would’ve categorized as a media company. And he said, it’s funny, we’re really going through this, you know, identity, not identity crisis, but kind of that conversation of what are we, are we a tech company? Are we a media company?

[00:24:13] Matt Hummel: Are we a gaming company? So anyways, it’s just, it’s cool to think about. Even a company like Netflix who we do think about sort of leading the way around AI and, and the whole, you know, making recommendations and whatnot, they’re still evolving day in and day out.

[00:24:29] Troy Sandidge: And I think, I mean y’all, when I got my Pokemon to evolve, it was dope.

[00:24:34] Troy Sandidge: Embrace the evolution, like you’re gonna get better and stronger, faster, more efficient, and be able to handle more to scale. It is scary. Yes. But is it impossible? No. Right

[00:24:46] Matt Hummel: on. Well, you recently wrote on LinkedIn about marketing being in crisis mode, especially when budgets freeze. Can you connect the dots for us between that thinking and how AI fits into the solution?

[00:24:58] Troy Sandidge: Is that freeze [00:25:00] fawn feast or famine type of scenario when these things happen and. We can’t deny the psychological impact on just people of all things and how you navigate and how you market. And so I think part of it, when you having AI integration, it takes, I, this sounds a little bit, uh, but it takes a little bit of the emotion out of it.

[00:25:21] Troy Sandidge: Yeah. When you have some to operate and do some other things and agents ain’t got no emotion to tie to that. They can handle that. So you can retain your head space. Or the deeper things that are requires of your time and resources. But every industry is different and every pace is different. Someone’s gonna move in faster than others, and some’s gonna demand more than others.

[00:25:45] Troy Sandidge: And so you do need to take a step back and look at, while we’re in this crisis, what can we do? What should we let go of? And only you know what threshold you’re at. Are you on the. We got, we got some savings. We can let it burn a little bit and [00:26:00] figure out where the optics of the lay of the land is for our industry is now.

[00:26:03] Troy Sandidge: Or you know, we were just making buy and about to hit Q3 and we were just making buy. We gotta make some pivots now to recap, you know, our level in the marketplace, or you’re in, you know, full-fledged survival mode. We need something now in those areas, AI is gonna be a different avenue for you differently.

[00:26:22] Troy Sandidge: You’re gonna approach it differently. Your marketing might get more. Align with sales and jargon and language because you’re coming from the bottom up instead of from the top down. You can maybe calm the seeds with better thought leadership and creativity to educate and establish your dominance that way.

[00:26:39] Troy Sandidge: It’s gonna look different for everyone. It’s not a one trick pony that fits all think, but it is something to consider in these moments of crisis. How do we connect and move forward? But the last thing I would say, to cut this, to make it short and get to the point, my final point. You have to understand where you fit in the mind of [00:27:00] your ideal buyer right now, because the worst thing you can do is look like you just put some random thing together and be like, here, this is not what we asked for.

[00:27:11] Troy Sandidge: Ooh, we just added this AI thing here. We’re not convinced. You wasn’t talking about, you didn’t give us no padding, no anything. You just showed up one day and say, you know, here’s iOS 26 with no context. Right? So we can’t have that. We can’t have that. You have to know where you are in conjunction with your ideal marketplace.

[00:27:29] Troy Sandidge: And then from there, how do we integrate AI to make it help us move forward?

[00:27:33] Matt Hummel: Great stuff. Also could not agree more. I’ve seen some releases coming out from companies I follow and I just, I take the five minutes to read the press release. I’m like. They literally just added AI to what they’re already doing.

[00:27:44] Matt Hummel: Just the words, but all right. You know what, marketers, right? I know Guilty is charged so well. I want to transition the conversation arguably to the complete opposite side, you know, shifting from AI to something [00:28:00] totally different, which is community. You’ve got a big passion for community, both outside of work, but also at work.

[00:28:06] Matt Hummel: And, and here I want to talk about the work side and, and community. What role does you know, community or community building within organizations play for brands today? Especially in the environment we’re operating in?

[00:28:20] Troy Sandidge: You know, we talked earlier about, you know, my time with nonprofits and I always use as an example, I said during the pandemic, how in the world the nonprofit survive that, how.

[00:28:34] Troy Sandidge: During a two, 2008 financial crisis pandemic, we have these crazy crisis and no one thinks about how these nonprofits maintain and continue on. And I’m sure for-profit organizations can learn a lot from them. And the biggest anchor point is no matter what they, they are tied to community. Hmm. Imagine CMOs you don’t know what to do and you ask your community, they give you the very idea you need, the very product.[00:29:00]

[00:29:00] Troy Sandidge: Optimization that makes you your next million, your next billion dollars, just by asking your community. Yeah, I mean it, it doesn’t take rocket science. I don’t need to have a whole pitch deck. What do y’all want us to do? Very vulnerable question, but it could lead to great results if you ask the right people.

[00:29:19] Troy Sandidge: But what saying community legitimately is an insurance policy. When you have the community, they understand you, they trust you, and they’re willing to stay with you. Even during tough times. During tough times, people held their money, but the nonprofits of the world, when they’re asked the community, Hey, our impact still goes on even in these moments.

[00:29:40] Troy Sandidge: Can you help us out? And people, it’s even more important. Yeah, exactly. They still gave, they still supported. Why can’t you all tap into that power? Yeah, you’re not, they’re still giving you money. Maybe there is an exchange of buying your product or service or whatever the case might be, but there’s still an impact there and you need to lean in on that because when these things happen, the [00:30:00] community is what’s gonna hold you down and make sure you’re good.

[00:30:03] Matt Hummel: So talk to me about how do you define a community? How do you think about building communities within an organization, sort of at the, you know, practical level?

[00:30:13] Troy Sandidge: I think at the practical level, community is. In a simulation or connection of people who love the idea of what you are as a brand. So think culture, brand, positioning, marketing, comms, all of that is entwined to make a fortified community now where it lives.

[00:30:34] Troy Sandidge: Don’t be too technical with it because it can go beyond it. Yes. I do agree at this point, many need to consider a dark social. That means non-connected. That could be, you know, whatever, a group chat, whatever to please. No slack though we’re, we’re burned out. We don’t need to donate more Slack team. I’m just putting it out there for world.

[00:30:49] Troy Sandidge: Amen. Um, to anchor. But I think it’s necessary. And then there’s levels to community and I think this is where a lot of people mess up. If you’re a founder led organization [00:31:00] and you know, you look at the, the perfect founder led examples. It’s exhausting up there because you’re living and dying by the awe of one person leading the way.

[00:31:09] Troy Sandidge: But when you make your employees, your executive staff, various ones within your c, your, uh, team as beacons and voices for your brand to tie to the community, there’s diverse, there’s equity, there’s understanding of I’m seeing myself in this person, or I see their perspective. And once you build that together, it makes sense.

[00:31:28] Troy Sandidge: So, Troy, get to the point, what does that mean for me as I’m building community? Ask yourself, who do you want and what do you need? Yeah. And who are the decision makers? Not everyone who is buying from you may not be a good fit, but also just because they’re not buying from doesn’t mean they that they’re not.

[00:31:46] Troy Sandidge: They could be a direct line to a whole ecosystem that you haven’t tapped into, and they’re one approval and verification that you are legit, that your product service works, brings a whole new funnel of money, revenue, and [00:32:00] impact. I like to say brand equity as well to the mix. What’s the affinity looking like?

[00:32:06] Troy Sandidge: Yep. So it’s very critical for that.

[00:32:08] Matt Hummel: So like with most things, start with the why and then build it from there. Do you think that community should be monetized in the sense that you’re charging for membership?

[00:32:19] Troy Sandidge: I feel there’s a lot of ways we can make money off community without gatekeeping from the beginning.

[00:32:24] Troy Sandidge: I also think it is industry agnostic depending on where you’re at with it. I do think I. If you’re more creative side and you are educating more, then I can see that being a fee. A lot of people are having great success in that, in that subscription model. But I think if you’re direct to consumer, I think if you’re a big massive product brand, you probably shouldn’t gate keep and under a pay.

[00:32:49] Troy Sandidge: Um, thing for community, the community itself is gonna make you money. Yeah. Yeah. Um, they’re gonna be your advocates. I like to say your buyers advocates in elevators, they’re gonna drive that whole thing home. And so [00:33:00] I don’t think that’s the best move for optics, simply ’cause most organizations think they have community.

[00:33:05] Troy Sandidge: I. They just got followers. They don’t have community, they just got followers. They just got subscribers. Yep. Those aren’t necessarily people part of your community. Let me make that clear as well.

[00:33:13] Matt Hummel: Yeah, great point. I think we see that even in the B2C world too, on social in particular, someone like have a bunch of followers, but they don’t really have a community, and I think it’s the same parallel.

[00:33:24] Matt Hummel: If you have a true community who’s engaged and active and you’re sort of all supporting each other in that journey that you’re on, then. You’re gonna make a lot more money than you are if you’ve just got a bunch of followers. Anybody can get followers. Just go buy a bunch of followers. So any final pieces of wisdom out there for organizations, for marketers who are looking to invest and build up their communities?

[00:33:45] Troy Sandidge: Take some time to explore other communities outside of your bubble. You can get so lost in your own jargon of your own industry. That you think you’re talking clearly and you’re not, you’re talking to Swahili, to everyone and they don’t understand the words you’re saying. Yeah. [00:34:00] So it might be a good, clear your palette a little bit and go explore other communities on the areas and seeing what’s working, what’s not, what’s doing.

[00:34:07] Troy Sandidge: That may be a refreshing jolt for you to bring it back. New ideas to your own community management.

[00:34:12] Matt Hummel: That’s true in almost anything that you look at. As marketers, I think we tend to be so siloed on, well, if I’m in cybersecurity and I need to do messaging or positioning, I should only go look at those types of companies.

[00:34:24] Matt Hummel: And the reality is like, broaden your scope. There’s some great stuff out there. We are using Pepsi Co. Recently as a sort of a, a case study when we were thinking about the impact that brand can have. You know, on an organization and how you think about the, how you measure the impact to brand and, and just it, you know, what we were talking about was like every Monday the finance and marketing leaders and others at Pepsi are looking at.

[00:34:48] Matt Hummel: Their percentage of market share and the change week over week. And you don’t think about Pepsi as an example, as a company who’s got this modern marketing demand strategy. You think about them as a big brand who’s out there putting on [00:35:00] big ads and you know, competing for that. Just every little percentage or micro percentage of ownership.

[00:35:06] Matt Hummel: And so, such a great point. There’s just get yourself outta your, outta your own, you know, way and think more broadly. Are there any communities out there that you think are just generally doing great things that you would point to just as a, Hey, if you want to go learn a little bit more about what good looks like, here’s a couple examples.

[00:35:24] Troy Sandidge: That’s a great question. You know, I was recently with Exit five and that that is a gated paid thing, but I was with it before it blew up a little bit. Yeah, so it’s been cool to see the transition and a slight price increase, but the value’s still there and the how it’s. Grown and scaled, and it is for marketers, CMOs, all of that good ethos, good group.

[00:35:48] Troy Sandidge: But also I’ve been looking at, and this is not something I’m in, but I’ve been observing Dove and for those, no Dove soap, all that stuff. They have a community or just people not only for maybe beautification, but [00:36:00] just. Learning how to love yourself in your own skin. Now, why would a brand who’s trying to sell you products to make you feel better with your skin, however the spectrum might be, would have a community like that to show you that our products intentions are to make you feel beautiful and feel connected or handsome, wherever the adjective you want to use there.

[00:36:21] Troy Sandidge: And I was like, wow, isn’t that interesting? That’s really cool. Yeah. But it creates this impact. Which elevates the value of the product. Yep. We’re not saying you need this to make you whatever. It’s an enhancement of what you already have inside. Mm-hmm. And so they have a continuous flow of education to get people understanding of the rationale behind our products, our why, start with the why, but then tying in all those other applications and other people, not them.

[00:36:50] Troy Sandidge: Are constantly feeding the positive affirmations of them, the community, the products, how to use it better, that they can’t even begin to try to [00:37:00] describe it because everyone has a different life source and energy and Yep. Different experiences and that keeps their money going. I mean, true. What more can you do?

[00:37:09] Matt Hummel: I mean, talk about the, the impact that’s gonna have on the affinity of the brand. It may not change the perception of the product, but that’s not the goal. It’s, it’s at that brand affinity level and that, and the connection there of what they’re trying to Yes, and loyalty.

[00:37:22] Troy Sandidge: Eliminate the churn. I can maintain and grow more.

[00:37:26] Troy Sandidge: Okay. Well let’s, let’s do this for 10 seconds. Family, the person has used dub their whole life and what they’re gonna do, distill it down to their children and then their children’s children. And so you’re building that McDonald’s generational, I’m locking you in. This is what we use, this is the why. And it’s associated with our family.

[00:37:44] Troy Sandidge: It’s associated with our culture. Yes. Brand CMOs, you can create, uh, an ethos where we are so deep integrated with our audience that we are literally a part of the culture. They choose us just because they’re used to us, familiar with us in the culture, and that’s [00:38:00] it. There’s no competition that can break that bond.

[00:38:03] Troy Sandidge: There’s nothing that they can do. We can make the prices go up and they’re still gonna buy. That is power.

[00:38:08] Matt Hummel: A hundred percent. Well, speaking of breaking generational curses, I thought again, before I had kids, my kids would never eat McDonald’s. Here we are. All right, well last segment, Troy, what’s on tap? So I wanna talk about what’s on tap for you.

[00:38:25] Matt Hummel: So at the top of the show, we talked about your favorite pick me up beverage op. Now our leading sponsor opportunity. I wanna flip the question around, what’s your favorite drink when you need to unwind?

[00:38:38] Troy Sandidge: If anyone knows me, you know it’s hot chocolate. I am a chocolate connoisseur. If you wanna send me any gifts, you send me chocolate.

[00:38:46] Troy Sandidge: You are forever a friend of mine, yes. Chocolate. Chocolate, chocolate. But hot chocolate, a good cup of hot chocolate. Just goes a long way.

[00:38:53] Matt Hummel: Look, I love hot chocolate. We’ve not compared notes on hot chocolate. I don’t know that we have time to, but I [00:39:00] do. You’re the first guest on here that’s answered that way, so I want to dig in a little bit deeper.

[00:39:03] Matt Hummel: Are you talking about the Europe, the Spanish style hot chocolate, where it’s like thick and rich? Are you talking about like throwing a K-cup in a Keurig and brewing it like that? What is your, what’s your

[00:39:16] Troy Sandidge: method? It takes time. Just how people are with their expression machines. I haven’t bought me a, a hot chocolate machine.

[00:39:24] Troy Sandidge: I want to, that’s on my wishlist, but I want it nice and creamy. Little thick, you know, a little, have some cold milk. And if you know, uh, you know, I try not to be too much lactose. Maybe 2%. All right, 2%, you know, or, you know, almond milk is still thick and smooth and creamy. Um, you know, you gotta add your powder in there.

[00:39:44] Troy Sandidge: Maybe additional milk or something else. For creamer, I’m talking about really making that rich. Good cup. Mm, no thin water. Hot chocolate. No, we ain’t got time. No, just get that outta here. That’s a disgrace. That is not hot topic. You ever That is right. You ever, uh,

[00:39:56] Matt Hummel: ventured into condensed milk a little bit with your hot chocolate?

[00:39:59] Matt Hummel: Oh, [00:40:00] yeah. Now we’re talking. Now we’re talking. Okay. Okay. So what are your toppings of choice? Are you, or are you just the, I just need to taste the chocolate. Like if you’re a pizza connoisseur, you just need cheese. I don’t,

[00:40:11] Troy Sandidge: what do you do? I don’t need, I feel like sometimes marshmallows distract from, it’s almost like putting a one sauce on a steak that’s

[00:40:18] Matt Hummel: child’s

[00:40:19] Troy Sandidge: play.

[00:40:19] Troy Sandidge: Yeah. I just can’t, no, that’s not it. No salt and pepper. I do need to taste the richness of the chocolate. Yeah. If I don’t taste in the first sip, I’m out. ’cause that means you didn’t mix it right Or it’s just, it just wasn’t there to begin with.

[00:40:33] Matt Hummel: Don’t try to mask the pour watered down hot chocolate with a bunch of marshmallows.

[00:40:36] Matt Hummel: I’m not a child, y’all,

[00:40:38] Troy Sandidge: I’m just

[00:40:38] Matt Hummel: in

[00:40:38] Troy Sandidge: love

[00:40:38] Matt Hummel: right now. This is, this is the

[00:40:39] Troy Sandidge: elevation of conversation I appreciate. Oh, well

[00:40:43] Matt Hummel: if I, I, I don’t think I’ve actually ever been to Indianapolis, but it’s on my, it’s on my list. Our, our. Lead product guys there who I, I think you’ve met Tanner and I need to get over there and when I do, we’re gonna, we’re gonna go have some good hot chocolate, so, all right.

[00:40:58] Matt Hummel: Well, Troy, [00:41:00] you are a first time dad. So first of all, a huge congratulations. Three more months. I’ll have to get some pointers. Well, I can certainly tell you, like we talked about the beginning of show, what not to do, don’t do McDonald’s. What are you most excited about or most nervous about as you step into this new chapter?

[00:41:19] Troy Sandidge: As a strategist, as I am, I’m just kind of like all the things you don’t know. Right? And no matter, and it doesn’t matter what you ask every dad, everybody, they’re like, you’re gonna know. You know you’re gonna figure it out. You’re gonna fail. Is there a way I can’t fail? No. You’re gonna fail every day and just hope that by the end of the day, everyone survives.

[00:41:36] Troy Sandidge: You know? I think for me, it’s the adjustment of me having my freedom per se, to now being tied to this amazing little human you’re supposed to keep alive and. Feed it, education and, and grow to the being that it’s meant to be. And I take that. I don’t take that very likely. Uh, this is supposed to be the most exciting time ever.

[00:41:56] Troy Sandidge: We just did our gender reveal last Saturday. Uh, so [00:42:00] a few days ago. Well, I found out we’re gonna have a girl, so I’m about to be a legit girl, dad. Oh. I’m bringing my Kobe to for you. Um, so it’s real and I’m really excited and I’m trying not to add my strategic mind to everything and just sit in the moment as things progress.

[00:42:14] Troy Sandidge: For sure.

[00:42:16] Matt Hummel: Well, good for you. That’s, that’s the only piece of advice I’d give you is just live in the moment and Yeah, talk about, I mean, I thought I was a selfless person before I had kids. Oh, my, did I quickly learn the realities of my self-centeredness? But you know what, that’s a lifetime challenge that we face.

[00:42:35] Matt Hummel: You know? It’s that, you know, we’re, we’re still at the point in our careers, for example, where it’s like, we want to grow and continue to do more and this and that, and. And then I finish up work and you know, I have 12-year-old twin boys at this point, and I’m like, no, these, this is my life. This is where my time and investment needs to go into work is a means to an end, and I love what I do, thankfully, but I need to bring that same passion towards my kids and helping continue to help evolve and grow [00:43:00] them to this crazy world we’re living in.

[00:43:01] Matt Hummel: So. Troy, you’ve had quite a journey, you know, in getting to know you, I’ve realized just that and from speaking on big stages to, you know, on the other end, surviving brain surgery three times. So praise the Lord for all that you’ve been through and come through. But when things slow down or don’t feel as fulfilling, how do you stay grounded in your identity?

[00:43:24] Troy Sandidge: That’s a, that’s a loaded question, y’all. That’s a loaded question. You know, I think I’ll, speaking from two perspective, I. Most of my career, my work was my identity, the chase of the outcomes and the impact and the money drivers and saying you can make, add more to your list of being an author, being a keynote speaker, being all these things.

[00:43:44] Troy Sandidge: And you know, many times in life it just shuts you down and, and wakes you up. And I think with the brain surgeries that I had, and I realized when time stopped, the world kept going. And you have to realize, wow. All that is just [00:44:00] digital stuff. At the end of the day, what are you? What are you in yourself?

[00:44:05] Troy Sandidge: Who are you are? And I think when you separate yourself from that, what do you become? What are you trying to do? And I find myself rational that the love that you said, Matt, the love that I have for marketing, and if I dive in deeper of connecting people to an impact, a product, to a position that makes their lives better, at the end of the day, that’s what drives me.

[00:44:26] Troy Sandidge: That’s a mission. I think we all need to anchor our mission and when things, like right now, things aren’t always the best for me in my life at the moment, except for me knowing I’m a baby girl now. So I’m really excited on that happening and that’s one of my core fundamentals. Now that I’ll get to understand from your perspective, Matt, of how does that help anchor you?

[00:44:44] Troy Sandidge: But for those listening houses applicable is, I think just the constant changing of what is now in front of you. You can’t hold onto the idea of what was. What was got you to where you are now, it would not be where you need to go [00:45:00] to next. As scary as that may be, whether you call it faith or the universe or trust, however you believe, or wherever you think, um, that makes you feel applicable, it’s gonna be some steps where you don’t know the unknown outcome.

[00:45:12] Troy Sandidge: You can’t predict it, you can’t contain it, you can’t control it, but you must trust in your ability to navigate through it. And I know from my years of experiences and life experience. I can navigate through that and I think, and whoever’s listening and watching, it’s the same thing for YouTube.

[00:45:27] Matt Hummel: That’s cool, man.

[00:45:28] Matt Hummel: Well, great stuff. And that’s, that’s probably a great place to end because just, I love the passion you have there. I love your perspective. I always find talking to people who’ve experienced, I. Real life, which is usually a lot of, not just the ups, but the downs and connecting with people on the level.

[00:45:45] Matt Hummel: There’s just a different understanding, there’s a different empathy and, and point of view as they approach life. And it’s not, it’s not a life lived with, you know, timidity or just apprehension. It’s a life lived with an understanding of. This is life. [00:46:00] This is where we are, this is who we are. And like it or not, you know, you gotta embrace it.

[00:46:04] Matt Hummel: And so great perspective and also something that will carry forward for you really, really well as a dad. Because one thing I do know about kids is, you know, they do not ever get what they want or think they get what they want. So having that perspective that you’ve been through is gonna make you, you know, already give you a huge advantage as as a new father.

[00:46:22] Matt Hummel: So, congrats you get on that front and thank you. I received that. Troy, this has been an amazing conversation. There’s been so much richness, so much practical takeaways. I think, you know, calling you a, a strategy hacker, I think we’ve answered the question of what is strategy, because it’s not just these big up in the, you know, cloud thoughts.

[00:46:41] Matt Hummel: It’s real life practical. Digging into the weeds, getting stuff done, but doing it with that, leading with the why, and then everything that falls behind. So I just really appreciate the time that you’ve given to us today. I know our listeners are gonna get a ton out of it. So thank you again for being on the show today,

[00:46:57] Troy Sandidge: Matt.

[00:46:57] Troy Sandidge: Thank you for having me, and sending love and [00:47:00] positivity and abundance to all you markers out there. Awesome. Well, thanks again, Troy.

[00:47:06] Matt Hummel: Thanks again to Troy for joining us on today’s episode of The Pipeline Brew. I hope you all enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. Please leave me a comment with your thoughts and make sure you subscribe to the show so you’ll never miss an episode.

[00:47:18] Matt Hummel: Once again, I’m Matt Hummel and I’ll see you next time.