Brewing Success with Thinksmart Marketing: Balancing Global Consistency and Local Impact in B2B Marketing

How can you enable your marketing teams to do more with less while still maintaining brand relevancy and impact? In today’s episode of Pipeline Brew, Matt welcomes Janine Pares, Founder & CEO of Thinksmart Marketing to explore why strategy and brand positioning have become even more critical differentiators in today’s market. 

Having founded Thinksmart in 2014, Janine’s agency specializes in strategy-led marketing across content, digital, brand and product to help global companies stand out while driving growth. Drawing from her experience across B2C and B2B, Janine shares insights on the challenges of balancing centralized global strategies with the unique demands of diverse regional markets like APAC.

Additionally, you’ll hear why strategy starts with what you choose not to do, how to get C‑suite buy‑in for brand investment, and why the best content often has a longer shelf life than marketers think. Janine also explains the role AI can play as an enabler, freeing up human creativity and critical thinking while keeping teams agile.

With 30 years experience, the first 17 years of Janine’s career was forged in corporate marketing for some of the world’s leading B2C & B2B brands across global, regional and national remits in Australia and abroad. With a commercial focus and strategic approach, Janine founded Thinksmart Marketing in 2014 and today leads the team to partner with enterprises and scale up B2B brands across APAC.

[00:00:00] Matt Hummel: Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Pipeline Brew, the podcast that meets at the intersection of people and pipeline. We’re bringing you fun yet insightful conversations where you’ll not only hear from marketing experts, but also get to know them as well.

[00:00:22] Matt Hummel: Hey everyone. Today I’m super excited to be joined by Janine Pares. Janine is one of APAC’s leaders in B2B marketing. She left the corporate world back in 2014 to launch Thinksmart Marketing to fill the gap she experienced in the agency space. Today’s conversation will cover topics such as delivering more with less, how brand positioning has become a strategic lifeline in today’s market, and what it takes to stay regionally relevant despite operating as a centralized organization.

[00:00:48] Matt Hummel: Janine, welcome to the show. How are you today?

[00:00:51] Janine Pares: I’m great. Thanks. Uh, Matt. Thanks for having me on.

[00:00:53] Matt Hummel: Oh, it’s my pleasure. Well, for those who are wondering, how do I know someone who lives clearly not in the US [00:01:00] or uk because all of my guests have been in one of those regions, I want to just start with how we met.

[00:01:05] Matt Hummel: So I think it was about a month or so ago, I was in Sydney for the B2B Marketing Leaders Forum in your hometown, beautiful city, and I walked over to your booth because you guys had the coolest. Sort of engagement wall with a bunch of different sticky notes and colors, and it was fascinating and I’d love to just start by asking, what the heck was that?

[00:01:25] Matt Hummel: And you know, did it end up doing what you had hoped it did?

[00:01:29] Janine Pares: Yeah, I mean that was, uh, it was a simple idea that we came up with to really sort of help articulate, I guess, and sort of engage the audience around what we were focused on at the forum, which was really about brand positioning and the importance of brand in B2B.

[00:01:44] Janine Pares: And so we came up with this. You know, the stand was basically called, you know, what’s your position on positioning? And we had this, you know, huge matrix up on the back wall and a quadrant and, you know, just asking people to map their positioning. So one was, I just want to be noticed, I want to be understood, [00:02:00] I just want leads now.

[00:02:01] Janine Pares: And, um, so on. And, and we had these stickers and asking people to basically map where their brand or where. They saw themselves and it was a really great tool, very simple device, but a great conversation starter, A great way for people to really kind of sit and ponder. And we found a lot of people really wrestle with the question, to be honest and find it difficult, I guess, to kind of map themselves.

[00:02:22] Janine Pares: But at the end of the day, as the two days sort of emerged, um, we found that, you know, I want to be understood, emerged as sort of the clear winner. And when you think about B2B, that’s not surprising because in such saturated markets, you know. The importance of being understood in market and your audience, understanding where you position is so critical.

[00:02:42] Janine Pares: And of course when that doesn’t exist, the challenges of course that come off the back of that. So yeah, that was the activation

[00:02:49] Matt Hummel: spot on. And I, it just goes to show you don’t have to spend a ton of money to drive engagement. You just have to, you have to think smart or be creative, and I love that. Exactly.

[00:02:58] Janine Pares: Yeah, exactly. So could’ve to you

[00:02:59] Matt Hummel: [00:03:00] guys. Well, I think I landed with my sticky note somewhere in the middle of a couple of them, and then you had to remind me. It wasn’t for my personal purposes, it was corporate brand. I’m like, oh, but I, I, I wanna be understood, but all right, fair enough. I’ll do it for my business.

[00:03:12] Matt Hummel: But no, it was really cool and I’d love the concept. Well, I want to jump in. If you’ve listened to the show before, you know, I always like to start each episode with a little icebreaker to get the ball rolling. So Janine, what is your go-to beverage when you need a little pick me up?

[00:03:26] Janine Pares: Well, if you’d asked me six months ago, I definitely would’ve said coffee, but I accidentally weaned myself off the caffeine.

[00:03:33] Janine Pares: And so these days it’s uh, peppermint

[00:03:35] Janine Pares: tea.

[00:03:36] Matt Hummel: Oh, well, good for you. So I know you’re not a coffee drinker anymore, but coffee in Australia, is it like American coffee or is it more European style or something? Totally different.

[00:03:46] Janine Pares: More European style. Definitely. And I mean, despite not drinking coffee much anymore, I still love it.

[00:03:52] Janine Pares: But yeah, certainly more European style. Lots of different, you know, from the lattes to the cappuccinos, to the long blacks, to the, you know, [00:04:00] piccolos, et cetera. There’s definitely a strong coffee culture.

[00:04:02] Matt Hummel: Love that. What is a piccolo? I’ve never heard that before.

[00:04:05] Janine Pares: Gosh, you’re testing me now. It’s almost like a short black.

[00:04:08] Janine Pares: Um, but it’s got some milk in it, so it’s like a mini latte.

[00:04:12] Matt Hummel: Oh, interesting. Coffee aficionados

[00:04:14] Janine Pares: are going too. It’s like a

[00:04:14] Matt Hummel: corta, cortado, whatever. That’s however you pronounce it. I don’t, I think it’s a Spanish version of that. So, anyways. Well, awesome. Well, before we talk about what you’re up to today, I’d love for you to tell the audience a bit more about yourself, your background, your passions, and any, you know, kind of lessons that you’ve learned along the way.

[00:04:31] Janine Pares: I mean, I started my career, gosh, nearly 30 years ago now in corporate world. And so, you know, spent 17 years of my career in the corporate side and started B2C. Actually lots of really cool industries like automotive and telco, and had lots of really great experiences. Lived in London for six years, had global roles, regional roles, of course, domestic roles.

[00:04:50] Janine Pares: And I guess as my career progressed, I shifted from B2C into B2B. Then, yeah. In 2014, you know, after having a couple of kids decided the, uh, the corporate [00:05:00] life wasn’t for me anymore and set up things about marketing and really that was to fill a gap that I experienced in the agency space. And, um, we’ll talk a bit more about that later.

[00:05:10] Janine Pares: But essentially, kind of that crossover between strategy, very commercial oriented thinking, and really sort of the, the strategic pillar of the marketing needs to be in organization and bringing that from an agency perspective so that. What we’re delivering to clients is actually fit for purpose is executable.

[00:05:28] Janine Pares: Like just runs in the context of what an organization needs and what marketing needs and what marketers in an organization needs. So that’s been the journey. I mean, I think over time what I have certainly learned is, and even just in my corporate days, is just. Get stuck in really. Um, so say yes to opportunities, get involved, be curious, and you know, that’s what opens up doors, really.

[00:05:51] Janine Pares: And you know, I think that’s where the greatest learning opportunities come from as well.

[00:05:54] Matt Hummel: That’s awesome. It’s cool. You spent time in B2C and made that transition into B2B. Were there any [00:06:00] learnings that you pulled forward or maybe said differently, do you ever think back to your days in B2C and think, oh, I should kind of bring that philosophy or concept or, or something like that into the B2B space?

[00:06:10] Janine Pares: I mean, it’s interesting because I think it’s, it happened organically. It wasn’t a conscious decision, but ultimately, I think when you come from a space of. Strategy. And you know, mark Ritson and all the other greats of the world will say this, there’s so much more commonality than there is difference.

[00:06:28] Janine Pares: And at the heart of it, strong strategy, whether it’s for B2C or B2B is true, and that doesn’t shift. The fundamentals do not change. It’s really how you apply those fundamentals, the complexity in B2B if they of course makes things more interesting. The kind of channel selections, all of those things, but the fundamentals around strategy and strategic thinking and the importance of brand, which we’ll talk about really remain true regardless of which side of the fence you’re on.

[00:06:54] Matt Hummel: That’s a great call out. I mean, strategy is king. Your customer is king. Know your customer. [00:07:00] It’s so smart. Well, let’s pivot to talk about today you own an agency, so I know, I know you’re gonna feel the pain of what I’m gonna share here, but many marketing leaders today really face this impossible paradox of being asked to drive or build out immediate ROI.

[00:07:15] Matt Hummel: Well, not being given the correct resources to do so. I suppose we’ll be, should start out our conversation with answering this first, is this now the rule. Rather than the exception.

[00:07:24] Janine Pares: I mean, sadly it feels like it might be.

[00:07:26] Matt Hummel: Yeah.

[00:07:27] Janine Pares: Um, I think really honestly since sort of COVID, yeah, the rule book has, has changed a lot.

[00:07:32] Janine Pares: And you know, a lot of organizations are under extreme pressure, I think particularly in B2B sectors. And marketers certainly, you know, feel that pressure coming down from sort of sales and from, you know. Just a lot of the disruption that’s happening in the marketplace. So, you know, to be honest, I can’t see a world where doing more with less is not mm-hmm.

[00:07:52] Janine Pares: A gift. I think it’s becoming more and more commonplace these days. So yeah, we just need to think differently and be more agile and be more pragmatic, I [00:08:00] think, in some of the choices that we make as marketers.

[00:08:02] Matt Hummel: I would agree. I mean, all the conversations I’ve had with marketing leaders and others, you know, investment bankers suggest.

[00:08:08] Matt Hummel: The world isn’t necessarily gonna change. I think we are the ones who have to change. And you could say for better or for worse, I think it was great when we had large teams and large budgets, but arguably we were operating like we had large teams and large, large budgets, and there was probably a lot of bloat and fluff and, and a lack of creativity because you didn’t have to be as creative.

[00:08:28] Matt Hummel: Which is kind of what we touched on at the beginning of the show. So, you know, what advice would you have for those out there who are really struggling or facing this paradox? Where do you even begin?

[00:08:37] Janine Pares: I mean, I think, you know, the, the answer to that question for me and many questions is really think hard about your strategy.

[00:08:44] Janine Pares: Strategy more often than not. It’s about the things you choose not to do, then the things you choose to do, and having a really focused vision on what success looks like, how that ladders up to the business goals, what [00:09:00] those levers are that are actually going to impact change, and then focusing the energy resources around those things.

[00:09:07] Janine Pares: That makes a huge difference. And I think in the context of budget cuts and resource cuts and all the rest of it, and and time pressure, we need to be very selective about what we actually do. And I think supporting that is this idea of an integrated strategy. So how do we start to break down some of those silos, not just.

[00:09:25] Janine Pares: Between marketing and other functions, but actually often within marketing teams and particularly large matrix teams, how do we start to really kind of work towards a common vision that is in alignment with the customer journey and the buyer journey, and how do those things then manifest in the work that needs to be done?

[00:09:43] Matt Hummel: I saw a post on LinkedIn recently that was talking about marketing measurements, marketing metrics that matter, and it was interesting. It was kind of a, an obvious thing, but just reading it. Almost out loud. It just caught my attention because it was talking about how you should really only be measuring metrics that actually you [00:10:00] can show a correlation to revenue.

[00:10:02] Matt Hummel: And I bring this up because you mentioned just being smart about what you’re doing. And I think marketers can get in this habit of more and more, more, or, Hey, we should do a podcast. We should do a newsletter. We should do X, Y, Z. And then let’s measure that by looking at how many subscribers do we have, how many impressions are we getting?

[00:10:20] Matt Hummel: You know the, probably the right metrics for that particular channel, but if you can’t ultimately tie it back to the impact on the business, then. Stop doing it. So just, I, I thought it was interesting in, in the context of what you were just sharing.

[00:10:33] Janine Pares: Yeah, absolutely. And I think just to add another flavor to that point is, you know, oftentimes, again that’s a, a symptom of thinking in silos and thinking about sort of channels as though they exist independently of each other.

[00:10:45] Janine Pares: And we know that’s not the case. And so I think, you know, understanding what that broader goal is, how the different activities we run as a marketing organization, whether we think of field teams, demand teams. Brand teams, comms teams, digital teams, et [00:11:00] cetera, how are they all interfacing with each other?

[00:11:03] Janine Pares: How does that then influence the activity that needs to be done? How do we kind of connect the dots and have that connecting thread through all of that activity? That’s a great way to unify, I suppose, you know, what needs to happen and from a measurement perspective, then certainly some of those lead indicators are useful.

[00:11:18] Janine Pares: But to your point, I mean, what influence or impact is it having on. Ultimate goal, which often is revenue and pipeline.

[00:11:26] Matt Hummel: Spot on. Well, just to kind of round out the discussion on doing more with less, because we couldn’t skip the topic of ai, do you think leaning into AI is really an answer? Again, i, I wanna preface because you, you spoke to strategy and the importance of leading with that, but do you think AI can be an enabler to effectively help marketers do more with less in today’s environment?

[00:11:48] Janine Pares: I mean, listen, I think there’s no denying the fact that AI is absolutely a helpful tool and more and more, it really is, is going to become critical for what [00:12:00] we do. I think the value there is about understanding what those repeatable tasks are. How do we remove some of the busyness that, you know, kind of.

[00:12:08] Janine Pares: Exists in our days and perhaps use AI to do that, but also use AI to think about how do we stimulate ideation and problem solving, but still apply that critical thinking. Mm-hmm. Super important that, you know, the kind of human and the expertise can bring to the picture.

[00:12:23] Matt Hummel: Great, great perspective. Well, I wanna transition now to talk about brand and particularly brand as the differentiator, which is a term that I stole from you.

[00:12:33] Matt Hummel: So we talk a lot on the show about the power of brand. Where do you see it fitting into the larger equation here as a differentiator for organizations?

[00:12:42] Janine Pares: Well, well, it’s interesting because I’d say over the last 18 months or so, we’ve certainly seen the pendulum switch from B2B organizations really chasing leads at all costs.

[00:12:52] Janine Pares: And then this sort of realization that actually much of that is not resonating, it’s not turning into revenue. Things are getting sort of stuck in the pipeline [00:13:00] and we’ve seen a shift towards the importance of brand. And when we talk about branding B2B, it’s, you know, not necessarily talking about the big brand campaigns, et cetera.

[00:13:08] Janine Pares: What we’re talking about is what does your brand mean in the minds of your audience? So what’s the positioning that you occupy in market? How do people understand you and what you stand for, and what value you bring in comparison to others in often saturated marketplaces, you know, so when that is not clear, the problems that come as a result of that, salespeople aren’t able to articulate the value prop.

[00:13:30] Janine Pares: And, you know, cross sell doesn’t happen as easily. Can’t get as much traction with net new, not progressing deals, um, through the pipeline as, as well as we can, buying decisions getting caught up because the broader buying committee and those hidden buyers don’t know, you don’t understand, you don’t understand the value you bring.

[00:13:47] Janine Pares: There are so many challenges for B2B organizations that come. As a result of some form of brand issue, if, if that isn’t clarified in market.

[00:13:58] Matt Hummel: Yeah. I’m gonna put you on the [00:14:00] spot a little bit and you can, you can virtually kick me under the table for, but you know, based on your view, which I totally agree with, around what branding means, are there any brands in market that you say have really nailed this?

[00:14:13] Janine Pares: Gosh. I mean, I think from a B2B perspective, I think there are certainly a few more now. I mean, you know, I think Salesforce has gotta be called out. I think they absolutely do this well. They have their distinctive devices. They really have a strong position in market and grow in that position across multiple categories within market.

[00:14:35] Janine Pares: I think that’s a sign of a strong brand. Where you become sort of ubiquitous, I suppose, in the space. So I think they certainly do that well. But I think if we look at the likes of, you know, Workday and mm-hmm. ServiceNow and a few others are really starting to kind of up the ante and take brand more seriously.

[00:14:54] Janine Pares: And certainly that’s leaning in from a creative point of view and they’re spending a lot of, a lot of budget on that granted. [00:15:00] But I think it’s indicative of the, the change in philosophy, I think and approach that some of these B2B organizations are, are taking.

[00:15:07] Matt Hummel: Oh, spot on. I’ve been to a few of the Salesforce offices and their commitment to branding through and through from the environmental to everything.

[00:15:15] Matt Hummel: It’s unbelievable. And you mentioned, you know, companies like Workday and Salesforce. I think a lot of times companies don’t realize or they forget, that the power of a good brand does more than just from a marketing standpoint. It literally aligns the organization around a common purpose. It makes them a desirable company to work for, which means you’re gonna get higher quality talent, which means you’re gonna develop better products and develop better campaigns, and so on and so forth.

[00:15:39] Matt Hummel: So I just, I’m such a strong proponent of strong brands, and so I think the examples that you brought were spot on. So.

[00:15:46] Janine Pares: And I think another example I’d be, um, remiss for not calling them out ’cause they are a client, but Adobe, um, also do that. Oh, a hundred percent. Also, um, you know, again, I mean when you, when you name these brands, they’re sort of, you know, immediately they occupy space in your mind.

[00:15:59] Janine Pares: And I [00:16:00] think, you know, that’s ultimately what it’s about. It’s about creating that mental availability.

[00:16:03] Matt Hummel: A hundred percent. Great call out on Adobe too. So what’s your advice for marketing leaders to earn the buy-in, whether it’s from the C-suite or from the board? To make investments in brand. Is there a short term option, if you will, that that would suggest, Hey, I wanna, you know, ’cause you, you, you’ll often hear a lot of marketers say, I just wanna pilot this.

[00:16:24] Matt Hummel: Can you really pilot brand? Or do you sort of need to commit to going all in?

[00:16:28] Janine Pares: Well, it’s interesting. I think the piloting approach is always a useful tactic ’cause it gets you the foot in the door. But to be honest, I mean there’s so much research now, and certainly we’ve seen it in the work that we’ve also put out in market is, although we know that brand 100% works over the long term and creates that long tail.

[00:16:47] Janine Pares: We also know, and you know, Ben and field studies from the long and short of it and, and, and plenty of other research since validates this is that you absolutely get the short term impact as well. Because if we think about the [00:17:00] B2B marketplace, we have, you know, what’s reported as about 5% of the market in market at any one point.

[00:17:06] Janine Pares: They start to notice what you’re doing and, and, and that’s the where the short term opportunities can come into play. But then of course the kind of out of market buyers are also, you know, absorbing that message and hearing that message. And when the time comes for them to getting market, that’s when you know, you start to see that long tail effect.

[00:17:23] Janine Pares: I think in terms of doing things slowly. So sometimes I think it just takes courage to, you know, get that commitment. Certainly there are ways to start small, but I think at the heart of it, it’s actually getting clarity on what. Is the positioning, how do you start to sort of roll everything under that?

[00:17:39] Janine Pares: So you’ve got this umbrella platform that. The various activity that you’re running as a team can nest under. I think that’s a soft way of doing it. ’cause you’re not necessarily changing the activity you’re doing, you’re just aligning the messaging and the tone and the, and, and the core elements together so that they actually create more impact and they have more momentum.[00:18:00]

[00:18:00] Janine Pares: Um, so that’s one sort of easy way I suppose, to inject the sense of brand through.

[00:18:05] Matt Hummel: Yeah. Do you think with all the research, and again, I know our, our own LinkedIn feeds and our emails, they’re all. The algorithm or whether it’s just what we subscribe for, we’re reading what we’re interested in and what’s relevant to us, but do you think that has carried over to make those types of conversations easier with the C-Suite?

[00:18:22] Matt Hummel: Are you seeing that from your chair

[00:18:24] Janine Pares: in terms of

[00:18:24] Matt Hummel: the relevance, in terms of both the relevance but also sort of the appetite for brand investment? Is it, is it an easier. Battle to win versus say 18 to 24 months ago even.

[00:18:35] Janine Pares: Listen, I think for some organizations it is still very difficult. It’s a really challenging market, and I think if the C-suite don’t.

[00:18:44] Janine Pares: Themselves recognize the importance of it or don’t see the connection, I suppose from their day-to-day experiences and how they relate to kind of brands, then it can still be a bit of an uphill battle. But I think certainly in general. There’s [00:19:00] more awareness. I mean, we see this in, in the sense of personalization at scale, in the sense of UX and a customer experience.

[00:19:07] Janine Pares: Some of those elements that we take for granted now and we expect as consumers where we are taken into our sort of business life. And I think that transition is certainly being seen. So I’d like to think some of that is filtering from a, a brand perspective as well. Mm-hmm. But certainly a lot of teams still find it challenging.

[00:19:26] Matt Hummel: That makes sense. I want to transition our conversation to staying relevant in local markets. One of the most, I guess, aha moments for me after my time in Sydney was just how diverse of a region APAC is and how important it is across these various regions to be relevant and really have that keen understanding of the uniquenesses.

[00:19:46] Matt Hummel: I’m not even sure if that’s a word, but we’ll go with it of each region, so you know, for those who are listening who may be less accustomed to. Vastly diverse regional place. Can you outline how you think about this?

[00:19:56] Janine Pares: Yeah, I mean, I think it is interesting ’cause I think unless you’ve [00:20:00] experienced the APAC region, it is easier to sometimes think of it as one big hole.

[00:20:06] Janine Pares: And in fact, it is the most diverse region that exists when we think about everything from not just languages, that’s just the tip of the iceberg. But cultural differences, market maturity is often very different. Value systems are very different. The way of doing business and selling is actually very different across a lot of these regions.

[00:20:25] Janine Pares: And so the diversity that exists within APAC is huge. And I think sometimes when regional teams are being asked to, you know, drive growth across this vastly diverse region, but without the resources necessarily to localize and customize, and we know of course how important. Localization is, and customization is, it can get really difficult to cut through.

[00:20:48] Janine Pares: And I think in the age of sort of centralization, businesses are looking for more efficiency and rolling things out from global. They take more of a western view and more of a US based view. And that just does [00:21:00] not resonate in many of these markets for lots of reasons. Not just language, but often cultural differences and market maturity differences.

[00:21:07] Janine Pares: Yeah. So it can be a challenge. It’s a complex and sort of rich region.

[00:21:12] Matt Hummel: Well, it’s such an important topic because the data that I have is a few months old at this point, but the data that I looked at showed tech budgets, B2B budgets. They’re up in the APAC region, especially compared to the rest of the world.

[00:21:26] Matt Hummel: And so, you know, my company has a growth focus within the APAC region. Many do. And so I think it’s a really important topic to understand because if you’re trying to shortcut it. You’re probably not gonna find the success you’re looking for with that. Yeah. What potential problems have you seen with organizations?

[00:21:41] Matt Hummel: ’cause what, what I also heard is a lot of the centralized teams are based in the states, but they’ve got those customers you mentioned Salesforce, Adobe, all those have companies have presences across apac. Do you have advice for those marketers are really struggling to con, to connect with the audiences across the APEC region.

[00:21:57] Janine Pares: Yeah, I mean, I think just to sort of touch on your [00:22:00] point around the growth, I think you’re right. There’s, you know, APAC is a growth market and it’s a very agile and, and nimble market, which makes it perfect for, you know, testing, learning, et cetera. But I think the centralization, certainly what we’re seeing over the last sort of six months or so, what makes it challenging is these teams on the ground are doing their best to maximize and sort of harness those opportunities for growth.

[00:22:21] Janine Pares: But the reality is that the, the tools they’re given, you know. The campaigns in a box, the strategies, the content, the creative isn’t fit for purpose in the market. And when they don’t have the autonomy locally to make the changes needed in order to get the results, then that’s where things can fall down.

[00:22:42] Janine Pares: Mm-hmm. Now, sometimes what we talk about is, you know, often, you know, in a B2B sense, in a global sense for apac. When we are working with these global brands, you know, we’re not trying to reinvent their brand. That’s certainly not the case, but there is a work of positioning that can be done because sometimes these global brands have a particular stance in [00:23:00] market in the States, but actually locally, the positioning needs to be slightly different.

[00:23:04] Janine Pares: Still connected, of course. Slightly different. So it resonates with the needs of the audience. ’cause when we think about positioning, really it’s at the center of, if you think about that Venn diagram is the the value that the brand brings. But that should always be in context of what the audience need actually is.

[00:23:21] Janine Pares: And if we’ve got diverse audiences, their needs are gonna be different, which means the positioning that sits in the center of those needs to change to accommodate those differences. But still be consistent with the overarching sort of global brand, and that’s often where the work comes in. And then how do we do that in a way to then, you know, ladder down to the material and the tools that the people on the ground need to do the selling and do the kind of, you know, campaign activation work, et cetera.

[00:23:47] Matt Hummel: That’s so interesting because when I’ve thought about. Positioning, or let’s think about it from a campaign perspective. I take that view of what does the audience really need? And so I try to create a campaign structure that is, you know, flexible enough to [00:24:00] go across various regions, but I’ve not really thought about it from a brand position.

[00:24:03] Matt Hummel: And I think what I heard you say is don’t try to make your brand positioning one size fits all. It should be true to, to your business and true to the value that you provide to your audience. But it’s okay to go on a little bit different path, personalize it, change it up a little bit to make sure that it’s fully relevant for a various audience.

[00:24:22] Matt Hummel: Am I hearing you correctly on that?

[00:24:24] Janine Pares: Yeah, that’s right. And I think, I mean, if we, if we look at it quite simply, it is a, a matrix. If you think about a typical sort of message house, often, how it’s easy to consume, you know, at a global level. Of course, there’s. It needs to be a consistent brand, um, and message and sort of brand line that’s a given.

[00:24:42] Janine Pares: But then how is that interpreted? In the different regions to accommodate things like their shift or their, their difference in understanding their difference in market maturity, their difference in needs and challenges. So we’re not changing it necessarily. We’re perhaps interpreting it or [00:25:00] highlighting other certain aspects within that position in that resonates with those local markets so that it actually works on the ground.

[00:25:07] Janine Pares: What we run the risk of otherwise is. It just doesn’t land. It kind of lands flat. It doesn’t mean anything to people, and that’s where you get the backlash, I suppose, in terms of, particularly from a sales enablement perspective, you know, sales people can’t get traction. Customers don’t really understand what you do or what you stand for or how you’re different to your competitors.

[00:25:26] Matt Hummel: Makes sense. Well, any final pieces of wisdom for organizations and marketers out there looking to enable that consistency across their various regions when they’ve got, you know, they probably more than likely those centralized structures.

[00:25:40] Janine Pares: Yeah, I mean I think it’s, it’s always if, if there’s the sort of luxury to sort of step back and really look at what are those kind of core elements that you are being given from global or central teams.

[00:25:52] Janine Pares: What can you take, what is relevant and can work, what can be adjusted minimally so that you can get things out to market really quickly? [00:26:00] And how do you sort of align as much as possible and consolidate as much as possible so that we’re actually limiting the volume of work and we’re actually adding, we’re thinking more about the value of some of the activity and work that hits the market.

[00:26:13] Matt Hummel: That’s so smart. We hosted our annual brand summit last week in Southern France, and one of the discussion points we had was around. As marketers and organizations, we get tired of our content before the market does. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve downloaded a piece of content multiple times because it has different relevancy to me at different points in my buyer’s journey, right?

[00:26:34] Matt Hummel: We tend to think volume, volume, volume, volume isn’t inherently. Bad. I think you could think about quantity of types of content if you need, if you take a good piece of content. And that was, that was also something that, ’cause we have representatives, we had senior level marketers from across, you know, the world, from, from mid-market to enterprise organizations.

[00:26:54] Matt Hummel: And that was sort of the consensus is create really good, compelling content. And then the volume should be in the [00:27:00] derivative assets, but not in. You know, hundreds of pieces of different messaging that are probably not that effective and, and really you just, you’re just confusing the market at the end of the day.

[00:27:10] Janine Pares: That’s exactly right. I think it’s really taking that, that approach and, and it’s scalable. It becomes scalable then. Yes. So, you know, and again, if we go back to, you know, the doing more with less is that, what are the core elements that absolutely tie to the positioning that have. Broad appeal. And then how do you cut those up?

[00:27:27] Janine Pares: How do you slice them up? How do you atomize them to, to get the, you know, all that juice out of the lemon, if you like, and get as much value? Yeah. That piece of content or that sort of, um, element as as possible. I think certainly that model. Yeah, and, and I think you’re right. People do. You know, I think as marketers we get sick of our own work too quickly, and we don’t necessarily always think about the breadth of that opportunity.

[00:27:51] Janine Pares: So maybe making some rush decisions around the need to create something new versus revisiting well, what, what do we already have and how can it be just adjusted to [00:28:00] apply to a different use case

[00:28:01] Matt Hummel: spot on. One of the marketers in the room said, you know, Matt, you’ve probably seen the same content from us for almost two and a half years now.

[00:28:09] Matt Hummel: I said, yeah. And she said that’s because it still works. And she said she gets pushback almost every quarter from sales. Sometimes people within marketing, they’re like, we’re really running this again. And she opens up the date and she’s like, this is why. I mean, and she’s done some, you know, creative refreshes from time to time, but the story’s the same.

[00:28:27] Matt Hummel: And guess what? It’s because the needs of her audience hasn’t changed. She just has different audience, you know, as they come into market and are, are becoming ready to buy.

[00:28:36] Janine Pares: That’s right. And I mean, to be honest, the same exists for us. If I think about, you know, we’ve been talking about integrated strategy and the need to, and we’ve got models and frameworks around how we do that with large and complex organizations.

[00:28:47] Janine Pares: We’ve been talking about that for three, four years or more. Um, that message is as relevant today as it was then. Yes, we might think about. How we communicate that message or the applications or the kind of use cases that we explore around [00:29:00] it. But that narrative really has, has not changed. And so I think when you land on something that is core to your value and mm-hmm.

[00:29:08] Janine Pares: Aligns with an audience need, you know, again, that’s the heart of positioning, right? And then it’s about, well, how do we interpret it for this use case and for that use case and for this audience, et cetera. A

[00:29:18] Matt Hummel: hundred percent. Well, I want to pivot to our last segment, which is called What’s On Tap. So I always like to talk to each of my guests about more than just their work.

[00:29:27] Matt Hummel: So let’s discuss what’s on tap for Janine. So at the top of the show, we talked about your favorite pick me up beverage, which is peppermint tea. I’m gonna have to try. I like peppermint. I’m a little skeptical how it tastes in tea, but you know. Now do you add milk to your tea, by the way?

[00:29:43] Janine Pares: Not, not to herbal teas only to black tea, but yeah, not to herbal tea.

[00:29:46] Janine Pares: Oh, I wouldn’t recommend adding milk. Um, yeah, I mean, to be honest, I didn’t love it. But it’s, it’s, it’s become an acquired taste. It’s an acquired taste, yeah. Is the peppermint

[00:29:55] Matt Hummel: strong or does it depend on the tea brand that you buy?

[00:29:57] Janine Pares: Uh, I think it depends on the tea brand. I started off [00:30:00] with green tea, but I certainly do prefer peppermint now, like, and now quite, it’s refreshing.

[00:30:05] Matt Hummel: Alright, well I’m gonna have to give it a look ’cause I have been trying to wean off caffeine myself. Um, so I’m always open to new ideas, but, well, I wanna flip the question around. So what is your favorite drink when you need to unwind?

[00:30:16] Janine Pares: Well, my go-to is usually gin, gin and tonic. I, yeah, find it sort of, you know, I can tolerate it more easily these days, um, than I can wine.

[00:30:27] Janine Pares: Um, and yeah, it’s a good, fun drink and there’s a huge. Gin culture as well. Um, oh, really? Around, as you know,

[00:30:34] Janine Pares: yeah. Lots of different gins and lots of different, um, uh, distilleries and stuff kind of locally here. And, um, things are growing a growing area, so,

[00:30:43] Matt Hummel: well, the audience knows. I’m still looking for my first sponsor.

[00:30:46] Matt Hummel: So What, what is your favorite gin brand in Australia?

[00:30:49] Janine Pares: Oh, gosh. Don’t put me on the, on the, on the spot. I mean, I don’t, I don’t, I’ll say, I don’t drink enough to know. Um, so Archie Rose, that’s certainly kind of a lo, a local one. That’s all. That’s, that’s a [00:31:00] good one. Yep. We’ll go with that. All right,

[00:31:01] Matt Hummel: and so Archie Rose is delicious gin enjoyed by B2B marketing leaders across the APAC region.

[00:31:07] Matt Hummel: All right, so rumor has it, you almost went down a different career path. Walk me through that. What ultimately led you into marketing?

[00:31:19] Janine Pares: Well, yes, I guess I, I, I discovered acting through school and decided it was sort of a way that I could express myself and build confidence, et cetera. And, and yeah, at the end of the school, I, I thought that was my career path.

[00:31:34] Janine Pares: I really wanted to be a TV presenter and travel the world and like interview lots of different people and that was sort of. Really what I had in mind. And so I almost enrolled myself even to nida, which is a, an acting school here. And then at the last minute, I guess, you know, got a bout of common sense and sensibility and, uh, enrolled in university instead, but still was trying to keep my options open.

[00:31:57] Janine Pares: So went down the path of. [00:32:00] Communications and, you know, doing some TV work, et cetera. And, uh, yeah. After uni I actually landed in marketing my very first marketing role, um, for Land Rover. Um, oh, no kidding? Yeah. Yeah. So in the automotive industry and. And that was, um, I’ve never looked back and I guess I found my calling and then of course went back and sort of, um, did a marketing degree as well.

[00:32:21] Janine Pares: And yeah, so, but you know, I think I’ve, I’ve certainly the last few years with kids, so I haven’t done much about the kind of acting desires, but when I was living in London, joined an avatar theater company and did lots of fun stuff there, so.

[00:32:34] Matt Hummel: Oh, that’s so cool. Well, and it’s funny, in small world, I worked with Land Rover early in my career too.

[00:32:41] Matt Hummel: I was working for a company that had developed an OEM. Product that we were going to market with Land Rover on. So I got to get their brand guidelines and all their books and I’m like, oh my gosh. Talk about a really cool brand.

[00:32:53] Janine Pares: Yeah. So, yeah.

[00:32:54] Matt Hummel: Yeah. That’s awesome. Really

[00:32:55] Janine Pares: cool. Yep.

[00:32:56] Matt Hummel: Well, last question, you are based in one of my [00:33:00] now favorite cities in the world, Sydney.

[00:33:02] Matt Hummel: From your perspective, and you’ve lived, you know, all over the world now, what makes Sydney such a great place to live, to work, and to raise a family?

[00:33:10] Janine Pares: Oh, listen, I mean, I think, I think it’s a very, you know, putting the traffic aside and the craziness aside and, um, I think it’s, it’s a, it’s a lovely.

[00:33:21] Janine Pares: Lifestyle, particularly in the warmer months, you know, access to the beach, access to lots of green space. You know, I, I remember when I was living overseas, when I would come back home to visit, I was always in such awe of the city. Mm-hmm. And I think you forget that when you live here, you forget how good it is.

[00:33:39] Janine Pares: Um, and sometimes it takes step out to come back in and, you know, get that sort of, um, perspective again. But certainly it’s a very livable city. Although the traffic has got significantly worse over the last few years, so that, that’s probably the one downside. But, but otherwise it’s great. Yeah.

[00:33:53] Matt Hummel: Well, for those who, who haven’t visited, are there any, are there any must dos, must sees when, when you come?

[00:33:59] Matt Hummel: Oh, I

[00:33:59] Janine Pares: mean, I think there’s so [00:34:00] many iconic things in Sydney, the bridge climb, which I still have not done. You know, obviously just potter in around, um, yeah, the kind of the circular Kia and the Opera house, but you know, some really beautiful cliff walks and things like that. So there’s just so much. So much to see whether it’s on the, you know, the beaches, whether it’s, you know, the national parks.

[00:34:20] Janine Pares: There’s a lot to explore and, you know, I’d say many Sydney insiders probably haven’t, including myself, haven’t, haven’t explored, um, the extent of

[00:34:27] Janine Pares: what often visitors do.

[00:34:29] Matt Hummel: Yeah. Well sometimes you, you have to be a tourist in your own town. No doubt.

[00:34:32] Janine Pares: Yeah.

[00:34:33] Matt Hummel: Well, it’s funny on the, on the hiking or climbing over the bridge.

[00:34:36] Matt Hummel: When I was there, I really wanted to do it. My good friend Tom, our CRO. Just, he just just couldn’t do it. So I’m gonna call him out on this podcast. We walked across the bridge, it was fine. We got our sales and marketing Lima moment. But we didn’t, you know, I wanted to put that harness on and go over. So yeah, we’re just gonna shout, shout out to Tom, but

[00:34:54] Janine Pares: well, maybe next time.

[00:34:55] Matt Hummel: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Next

[00:34:56] Janine Pares: time you’re over you can do it. Yeah.

[00:34:57] Matt Hummel: There you go. Next, next time, next event. [00:35:00] I’ve, I’ve, uh, guilt tripped Tom into doing it next time, so, well, Janine, this has been an amazing conversation. I’m so glad I had the chance to meet you when I was over in Sydney and just have you on the show as well, and just to hear what I think you, you have.

[00:35:14] Matt Hummel: Probably one of the most unique perspectives and point of view on positioning and, and as you, as you call it, brand, as the differentiator. And so I just really appreciate your time today and all the great thoughts that you, you shared with us.

[00:35:26] Janine Pares: Thanks so much, Matt. I really appreciate it. Lovely to chat to you and meet you as well and look forward to yeah, staying in touch and hearing all the other great episodes that you bring out.

[00:35:37] Matt Hummel: Thanks again to Janine for joining us on today’s episode of The Pipeline Brew. I hope you all enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. Please leave me a comment with your thoughts and make sure you subscribe to the show. See, you’ll never miss an episode Once again, I’m Matt Hummel and I’ll see you next time.