Brewing Success with Chloe Thompson: Making Content Matter Across Marketing, Sales, and Revenue

With content teams being asked to do more with less, how can marketers build a strategy aligning brand and revenue which actually leads to business outcomes? Today on Pipeline Brew, Matt is joined by Chloe Thompson, Director of Content Marketing at Visier, to discuss what it takes to build high-impact B2B content.

Chloe shares her journey from journalism to content marketing, her role in scaling Reward Gateway’s blog into a content engine that supported two private equity events, and how she leverages subject matter experts across the business. She breaks down what content should own, how to partner with demand gen, and why storytelling must align with business outcomes to be respected internally.

Chloe also discusses how content teams can move beyond vanity metrics, build influence with data, and embed themselves in go-to-market strategy. Whether you’re a solo content marketer, scaling a team, or trying to prove your impact in a revenue-driven world, this episode delivers practical frameworks and hard-won lessons for content that actually moves the needle.

Chloe Thompson is the Director of Content Marketing at Visier, a workforce intelligence platform. With over 15 years of experience turning editorial storytelling into a growth engine for brands, Chloe has a long background in HR tech with prior roles at Reward Gateway and Compt. A J-school grad turned marketer, she’s built and led global teams, launched research programs that generated millions in pipeline, and helped fuel a $1.4B acquisition.

“When people first start out in their career, you should say yes to every opportunity that you get. I think being the first one to raise your hand in the room gives you a lot of visibility and a lot of opportunity, and I think that’s also a lesson that you have to kind of turn on its head as you get more senior in your career and be the one to be able to say no to things strategically.”

“I think that content fueled a lot of the things that we did at the organization, but of course it was also our product, our sales, the incredible 750+ people that I worked with across the different markets that really just created a differentiated brand and a vision for the company. But I think content played a really big part in terms of trying to elevate our internal subject matter experts and really making the case for being an ally for our HR audience.”

“The subject matter experts that I’ve worked with in the past, they’re so passionate about what they do. Like you find someone who loves what they do, who loves their job, that’s passionate about it, they want to share their knowledge. They want to help, but it needs to be in a way that feels natural instead of feeling prescriptive and like it’s another thing on their to-do list.”

00:00 Episode start

01:15 Icebreaker

03:00 Chloe’s career journey and early lessons

07:30 Building the content function at Reward Gateway

10:30 Clarifying the line between content and demand

12:45 Content’s impact on a $1.4B acquisition

15:30 Strategic advice for new content marketers

17:15 Working with SMEs across the business

21:20 Content metrics that prove value

24:00 Connecting content to revenue and brand

28:00 Making the case for content at growing companies

33:00 What’s on Tap

[00:00:00] Matt Hummel: Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Pipeline Brew, the podcast that meets at the intersection of people and pipeline. We’re bringing you fun yet insightful conversations where you’ll not only hear from marketing experts, but also get to know them as well.

[00:00:22] Matt Hummel: Hey everyone. Today I’m super excited to be joined by Chloe Thompson. Chloe is a content first marketing leader, strategist, and co-host of the Super Path podcast. I had the pleasure of speaking with Chloe back in September and since taping, she joined Visier. A workforce intelligence platform. As their new director of content marketing, she has a long background in HR tech with roles of both reward, gateway and comp.

[00:00:47] Matt Hummel: Today we’re gonna focus on how Chloe’s background in journalism gave her a strong foundation for her career in content marketing, what it really takes to build a successful content engine, and the importance of creating harmony and open lines of communication [00:01:00] amongst different marketing functions.

[00:01:01] Matt Hummel: With that, Chloe, welcome to the show. How are you?

[00:01:04] Chloe Thompson: Hi, Matt. Doing well. Happy Monday.

[00:01:07] Matt Hummel: Happy Monday. At least the day that we are recording it is Monday. So yes, we like to kick off each episode with a little bit of an icebreaker, as I think you know. So, question for you. What is your go-to beverage when you need a little, pick me up.

[00:01:22] Chloe Thompson: I’m unfortunately a total caffeine addict, so I need my coffee first thing. And then throughout the day, I actually went through a journey to find my favorite coffee, and it is called Drink Coffee, do stuff, which is a great name. And so I have that with a little bit of protein powder mixed in that gives it a little vanilla flavor every morning.

[00:01:42] Chloe Thompson: So that’s definitely my go-to.

[00:01:44] Matt Hummel: I’ve never heard of drink coffee, do stuff. That’s the brand name.

[00:01:47] Chloe Thompson: It is, yeah. And they send you little stickers too. It’s great.

[00:01:49] Matt Hummel: Ooh, I like it. So. Is it powder? Is it co? Like what is it?

[00:01:54] Chloe Thompson: No, it’s just the coffee beans. Oh, it’s just the coffee beans. Yeah. So I signed up for a um, trade, which is like a coffee [00:02:00] subscription model essentially.

[00:02:01] Chloe Thompson: Yeah. Trying to figure out like what kind of coffee do I like? And that was the one that I settled on. So it’s actually drink coffee, do stuff, and it’s called the party Wave.

[00:02:10] Matt Hummel: Oh,

[00:02:10] Chloe Thompson: blend. So,

[00:02:11] Matt Hummel: I mean, for those of you who know Chloe, it’s not a surprise that you love caffeine ’cause you are. High energy, which I love.

[00:02:18] Matt Hummel: Now, are you just coffee in the morning or throughout the day? Are you having, do you need to fix?

[00:02:23] Chloe Thompson: I’ve been trying to be just coffee through the day, but, uh, my friend actually turned me on to little, like water caffeine additives. So I also have the meal drops that I sometimes will use, but I have a strict.

[00:02:38] Chloe Thompson: Cut off at like two 15. If I have caffeine after that, I’ll be up all night.

[00:02:43] Matt Hummel: I love it. You are data-driven. You knew what type of coffee you needed. You knew exactly when to cut it off.

[00:02:49] Chloe Thompson: Tried test it. You know, I, I, it’s very important.

[00:02:53] Matt Hummel: Love it. Well, you’re the second guest now in a row who’s talked about the ME drops, so I’m gonna have to check those out for sure.

[00:02:58] Chloe Thompson: Maybe a sponsor.

[00:02:59] Matt Hummel: [00:03:00] You know, I’m always looking, my door’s always open. So, alright, let’s jump into your background. Talk to me about your career. What have been some of those key lessons that you’ve learned along the way?

[00:03:09] Chloe Thompson: I think, this is a cliche one, but always just being true to myself. I think that when people first start out in their career, there’s a couple things that you should do.

[00:03:19] Chloe Thompson: You should. Say yes to every opportunity that you get. I think being the first one to kind of raise your hand in the room gives you a lot of visibility and a lot of opportunity, and I think that’s also a lesson that you have to kind of. Turn on its head as you get more senior in your career and be the one to be able to say no to things strategically.

[00:03:41] Chloe Thompson: And so it’s almost like say yes to build respect and visibility and that accountability and then as you get later on in your career, say no. Uh, which will also build respect and accountability. So I think those are kind of like, that’s probably my, the biggest lesson that, that I’ve learned that I try to kind of.

[00:03:58] Chloe Thompson: In part on others. I’m a [00:04:00] journalism grad, so I went to University of Rhode Island and ever since I was little, I wanted to be a magazine editor. So I answered a Craigslist ad when I moved to dc, aging myself a little there about working on a bunch of different magazines, and that landed me at a content marketing agency before I even knew what content marketing was.

[00:04:19] Chloe Thompson: So I was on the editorial side of that for four years, then jumped into marketing when I moved back into Boston and realized that. The best way to work for something that I love and to kind of continue those passions is to find a way to find the company where I can tell the stories that matter. And that’s kind of just carried me throughout my entire career.

[00:04:41] Chloe Thompson: So I’ve been in travel energy efficiency agency life, contracted for a marketing rev ops agency, and then most of my career has spent the last decade on the B2B SaaS side and HR tech organizations.

[00:04:55] Matt Hummel: That’s awesome. Well, for those who don’t have journalism backgrounds, are there any [00:05:00] recommendations that you’d have out of the gate for how to create differentiated content?

[00:05:03] Matt Hummel: ’cause I think having that journalism editorial background is so important, and it’s something that a lot of content writers don’t have. Is it something that can be taught to, you know, today’s content marketers? I

[00:05:14] Chloe Thompson: think it’s interesting because I think the content marketers that I’ve spoken with that have a journalism background, we just sort of have like this instinct for storytelling and a natural curiosity.

[00:05:24] Chloe Thompson: In a different way that. I would say like textbook marketers have, and I think that’s because in journalism you’re not trying to sell anything, right? You’re actually coming at it from a very unbiased perspective. You’re just trying to find the heart of the story, but you’re always trying to find like what?

[00:05:41] Chloe Thompson: Information your readers actually need to know. So there is still that. What’s the takeaway from this story and whether that’s an emotion that you want your readers to feel, whether it’s an action you want them to take, or whether it’s just something that you want them to like learn more about. That’s where I think it can tie into marketing.

[00:05:59] Chloe Thompson: [00:06:00] And so I would say the way to kind of get to the heart of that is just. Look beyond your actual marketing box and find the stories, like go talk to people, go learn about your company. Go learn about how it was founded. Go learn about where it’s going. Learn about the interesting things that people are doing, and just try to be like that professional storyteller and that professional lurker, for lack of a better term.

[00:06:25] Chloe Thompson: That’s what I always used to call myself and just try to find those opportunities rather than being so boxed into. Well, we need to look at the demand and we need to look at the keywords and we need to look at this like strip all that out. What’s actually interesting and that’s where you’re probably gonna find the things that your audience actually cares about too.

[00:06:43] Matt Hummel: Such great advice. I have nothing to add because you’ve said it so perfectly. So, and I want to go back to, I love this idea of just say yes because whether you’re in content marketing or any role, and particularly early in your career, although it’s not to say. At any point in your career, you shouldn’t say [00:07:00] yes because it’s this idea of just being curious but, and being open and, but you know, the benefit earlier in your career is it starts to open up new doors for you.

[00:07:08] Matt Hummel: And you know, you’re gonna get broader visibility. But I loved how you balanced that. ’cause my mind immediately went to Yeah. But if we say yes to everything, which marketers can do, and we’re often guilty of that, then we run ourselves into the ground. And I think your point around being able to say no, but earn respect through saying that is equally important.

[00:07:26] Matt Hummel: So great practical tips outta the gate by Chloe Thompson. I want to transition to your time at Reward Gateway. So as I mentioned top of the show, you were there for, you know, seven plus years and you joined early in their content journey. Can you take us back to those early days, you know, and how you began shaping it into a strategic engine?

[00:07:47] Chloe Thompson: Oh man, those early days, so we were in the WeWork office right outside of South Station and we had just kicked off the Boston team. Reward Gateway had been in the US for. A little bit, but this [00:08:00] was really, I think the first time that it was trying to broaden its marketing in the us. Uh, so the company had already gone through, I think its first or, or second kind of PE investment.

[00:08:13] Chloe Thompson: And so it was looking to bring on more differentiated resources to really spearhead its marketing engine, blow up the US and then also expand in the different, the other two markets. So when I started. Really, I think it was a pretty small marketing team. I think the company was trying to wrap its arms around like what marketing actually meant for the company.

[00:08:35] Chloe Thompson: And I think that that’s where it’s sort of the baby startup to teenage startup kind of scale up mode, right? It’s like we’re doing a lot of things. We’re excited about the things, but we don’t really know why we’re doing the things. So I was brought on originally to manage the blog and. That I had just come from an energy efficiency company where I’d had my first taste of real content marketing management.

[00:08:59] Chloe Thompson: And I [00:09:00] saw the job as a real opportunity because I knew that even though I was just gonna be looking at the blog, that it was gonna grow a lot. Um, and I was really excited about the business and so I took a bet on it and I was right. So within three months, uh, our first SVP of Marketing, Jonathan Berg, who I’ve worked with a couple times now in my career.

[00:09:20] Chloe Thompson: Came on board and turned the company upside down in terms of rebuilding all of the marketing and sales infrastructure. We relaunched the website, we rebranded the company, we rewrote the entire website. And then that was in the midst of me trying to figure out like what was our editorial calendar and what was the potential editorial vision.

[00:09:41] Chloe Thompson: And then, you know, a few months in, Jonathan and I sat down and he was like. What’s up with your title? Why are you just managing a blog? You’re doing a lot more here. And I was like, well, I was gonna wait until six months to chat with you, but now that you brought it up. Sure. So I kind of quickly spearheaded more of the content marketing engine, looking at what sort of [00:10:00] demand gen, you know, lead gen content we could create.

[00:10:02] Chloe Thompson: ’cause we were really just building out the demand gen function at the same time as content. So that was, I think, a really unique opportunity because we were able to work hand in hand trying to define like. Okay, demand. What are you trying to do and content? What are you trying to do? How does that support the wider organization?

[00:10:20] Chloe Thompson: And I would say that fueled my entire seven and a half years was always trying to think outside of just what I was trying to do, what my team was trying to do, but like how are we connected to the wider business?

[00:10:32] Matt Hummel: Yeah. Well, I want to a follow up question on that. A lot of times content marketers get mistaken for demand marketers and, and vice versa.

[00:10:41] Matt Hummel: I think demand marketers can sometimes be seen as content marketers. What do you see as the relationship? Are the lines blurred? Should they be blurred or do people not understand the distinction between the two functions? What’s your take on that?

[00:10:52] Chloe Thompson: I think that, you know, one can’t exist without the other.

[00:10:56] Chloe Thompson: I think that the strongest demand gen marketers that I’ve worked [00:11:00] with. Understand that content is the fuel to demand, but we sort of, the way that I look at it is that you have your expertise in your lane, right? It’s like content understands the stories, the audience, the things that we wanna bring out into market, and almost needs to be a step ahead of demand gen in terms of what do we want to talk about.

[00:11:23] Chloe Thompson: Whereas demand kind of picks up those particular. Timely pieces, right? Like the actual campaign. So the way that it was described to me once, which I kind of understand and I know we’re on audio, but essentially it’s like content is like the heartbeat of the organization where it’s just sort of always ticking along.

[00:11:41] Chloe Thompson: And then when you look at demand gen, it’s really specific spikes in that. So I might look at foundational content from. A product lens from audience themes, from user pain points, and we might create content all around that. But then with demand, you’re turning on a particular dial. So maybe it’s that you’re trying [00:12:00] to enter a new market, or you’re doing a new vertical, or you are really trying to sell more of an upsell on X product.

[00:12:07] Chloe Thompson: So then you’re gathering up all the content that you need for that piece. So I think that they really need to work hand in hand together. I think it’s really important also to understand the distribution strategy that demand is gonna have. And I think sometimes that can fall on content, but I love to stick in the storytelling lane, create the best damn content I can, and then work with demand to say, okay, how do we actually get that out there?

[00:12:34] Chloe Thompson: What’s the strategy we need to really distribute it from like a paid perspective? Uh, so yeah, I think they’re, they’re essential partners.

[00:12:42] Matt Hummel: Love it. Also, during your time at Reward Gateway, you went through a pretty significant exit, uh, $1.4 billion acquisition, if I recall correctly, which is awesome. You know, it’s funny, I don’t often hear content marketers talking about, you know, [00:13:00] business access and, and valuations and acquisitions.

[00:13:03] Matt Hummel: Why do you talk about that? What role do you think content played in the successful acquisition your company went through?

[00:13:09] Chloe Thompson: I’d be remiss to say that content, you know, was the reason that would be insane. You know, I think that content fueled a lot of the things that we did at the organization, but of course it was also our product, our sales, our, the incredible, like 750 plus people that I worked with across the different markets, uh, that really just created a differentiated brand and a vision for the company that propelled us for the seven and a half years that I was there.

[00:13:35] Chloe Thompson: I think content played a really big part of that in terms of trying to elevate our internal subject matter experts and really making the case for being an ally for our HR audience. Um, so forming that community, forming that bonds. Really what I focused on with my team and others was bringing the voice of the customer to the forefront.

[00:13:58] Chloe Thompson: And so really just [00:14:00] telling the story that only we could tell. So then it was almost like. We had to be the obvious choice in terms of who did you want and who did you wanna, you know, acquire and, and work with. It was gonna be us. So, yeah,

[00:14:11] Matt Hummel: you’re spot on. Obviously content marketing alone wasn’t responsible and all the things that you pointed out, and I’m sure you’re missing a bunch too.

[00:14:18] Matt Hummel: But I still think it’s really interesting to understand and be able to articulate the specific role that you and your team played in that because. It gives purpose and you know, the stage that your company was at is not a stage that many companies aren’t also going through. And so I think it gives a clear purpose to the role and frankly, the value of content.

[00:14:38] Matt Hummel: Because as marketers, as you know, that’s one of the things that we often struggle to do is really define what is our business value. And I think you’ve made a clear connection back to the ultimate. Strategy of that company at the time, which was a successful exit. So it’s really, really cool and it’s, it’s neat.

[00:14:55] Matt Hummel: You got to be part of, part of such a successful exit. So

[00:14:58] Chloe Thompson: it was amazing. And, and [00:15:00] actually I went through that acquisition and then there was another investment from a PE firm. So to be able to do that twice in a seven and a half year span was, uh, absolutely unbelievable.

[00:15:11] Matt Hummel: Well, it’s funny, there’s a lot of, a lot of marketers who are in that position and, and very few who actually see it through to success.

[00:15:17] Matt Hummel: So kudos to you for. And the rest of the team, obviously for not doing it just once, but twice. So that’s awesome. Alright, I want to jump to our next section on practical advice. And Chloe, as I’ve gotten to know you, that’s one of the things I’ve really appreciated about you is you’ve lived and breathed as a content marketer and you can speak in theories and principles, but you’ve also, you’ve also gotten your hands dirty and you know what it takes to be successful.

[00:15:39] Matt Hummel: So I’d love to keep that going and get your perspective on some real practical advice. You know, borrowing from your own expertise. So. What strategies as a content marketer have you found work best?

[00:15:52] Chloe Thompson: So, that’s such a loaded question because I think the answer to that is understanding that each company is gonna have a [00:16:00] different strategy.

[00:16:01] Chloe Thompson: I think that a lot of, you know, the playbooks and, and frameworks that are out there are fantastic, and they can certainly be applied to a lot of different companies. In order to understand how to tell the story that only your company can tell. I think it comes from a deep knowledge of understanding. The way I always think of it is like your business goals, your product goals, your sales goals, your marketing goals, and then your content goals.

[00:16:25] Chloe Thompson: And if your content goals and everything that you’re doing doesn’t ladder up into each of those individual pieces. No one’s gonna pay attention to the content that you produce internally. And that is gonna have a knock on effect of how you’re being perceived externally as well, because you’re not gonna get the support from the rest of the business, the rest of the company to really get the content out there the way it needs to be.

[00:16:48] Chloe Thompson: That would be like my first, kind of my answer for what strategy that find that works best is that you gotta figure it out yourself.

[00:16:56] Matt Hummel: Yeah. Yep. That’s, no, it’s, it’s a great point. ’cause there are great [00:17:00] playbooks, there’s great frameworks out there, but. You know, you’ve gotta come in and figure out the cultural, how do people think?

[00:17:05] Matt Hummel: How do people operate? How are you gonna best get buy-in and, and create success in a way that’s going to align. With the organization. One of the things I know you’ve talked about before is you rely on subject matter experts and folks internally to help. You mentioned the top of the show to help you understand that broader story.

[00:17:26] Matt Hummel: I found it’s really hard at times to get buy-in from subject matter experts. They’ve got their own lay, they don’t understand why you need to talk to them. Is it your, your job to know the market? How have you found success in actually creating. You know, not just time with these folks, but strategic partnerships to really unlock the value of what you’re doing.

[00:17:44] Chloe Thompson: I think it’s a lot of understanding, again, like getting outside of your own head and your own goals and understanding the what’s in it for them as well. The subject matter experts that I’ve worked with in the past that my team has worked in the past. They’re so passionate about what they do. Like [00:18:00] you find someone who loves what they do, who loves their job, that’s passionate about it.

[00:18:04] Chloe Thompson: They want to share their knowledge, they want to help, but it needs to be in a way that feels natural instead of feeling prescriptive and like it’s another thing on their to-do list. So I think with that, that starts a lot with trying to understand how to build that relationship in the first place. And I think that that comes from a deep respect for what they do.

[00:18:24] Chloe Thompson: I’ve worked with dozens, you know, probably hundreds at this point of like HR people over the years, and I started by just really listening and trying to understand. What were they going through? What was it like deep in the trenches for them? Like what were the emotions they were trying to feel? And I’ll give a shout out to one of my former colleagues and now a, you know, great friend Deborah Corey, who was the former global reward director at Reward Gateway and was brought on in that capacity.

[00:18:53] Chloe Thompson: And then was, you know, keynote consultant who’s, she’s written several books and when we first started working together [00:19:00] and I was editing her stuff. We would go tip for tat, word for word. You know, there would be lots and lots of conversations. Lots of opinions. And as the relationship built and she understood what I was trying to do and how I was trying to use her words and her stories, I eventually became the only person she and I trust to edit her like four books that I have on my bookshelf.

[00:19:23] Chloe Thompson: Right? And I think that that just shows that you need to really. Get out of your own way and trying to be like, okay, we have to create this story. We have to create this content. They don’t care about that. They want to be able to just do their job. So it’s in your best interest to understand how you can get what you need out of them without interrupting their job as much as possible.

[00:19:48] Chloe Thompson: So what that might mean. In practice is listening to a lot of things that they’ve either written before, that they’ve spoken before. If you, if you can find like a podcast that [00:20:00] they’ve been on, really just get in their head and do that kind of that dirty work so that when you do have the time with them, it’s really, really pointed about what you actually are discussing and you can almost get there.

[00:20:13] Chloe Thompson: Get there maybe like 70% of the way, and they’re really helping you with that 30%. Because if you tell them, oh, I need you to help me a hundred percent of the way, you’re immediately gonna be met with, well, I’m not a writer, I’m not a marketer. Isn’t that your job? I don’t understand why I need to do that.

[00:20:29] Chloe Thompson: But if you say, Hey. We’re creating this content piece around this. You know, for example, you launch something amazing with your client. Like I’m talking about, you know, speaking with the client Success manager, for example. You launch something amazing with your client, uh, they just recently won in award about it.

[00:20:46] Chloe Thompson: We want to talk about like the best practice behind it, or some practical tips. Here are the things that we already kind of have. How can you help me like color in this story? Would you be able to help me connect me with that client so that we can, you know, pepper off [00:21:00] three questions, make it as easy as possible for them, and then what I find is if you do that, they’ll start coming to you with ideas.

[00:21:10] Chloe Thompson: Because you’ve built that relationship and you’ve built that trust.

[00:21:13] Matt Hummel: I love that. That’s so smart and so practical on so many levels. So great perspective. Let’s talk content metrics, everyone’s favorite subject. What in your opinion, are the must track signals you’d recommend for other marketers to prove impact without getting lost in this world of vanity metrics?

[00:21:32] Chloe Thompson: I have so many thoughts. Uh, I have to kind of give a little shout because over on Super Path, which is the content marketing network that I co-host the podcast with Eric and Jimmy over there, they actually just released the attribution report on content marketing. So I. This topic is very fresh in my mind as we just recorded a podcast on this last week, and I think the surprising thing for me in that report was that I think it was only [00:22:00] 9% of content marketers said that revenue was their North Star.

[00:22:05] Chloe Thompson: The other metrics that they looked at were that they reported as their North Star were, you know, were traffic leads M qls. And I think it also echoes back to when I did the state of HubSpot report with New Breed where I think it was around like 60 or so percent. Were still reporting M QLS as their most important metric.

[00:22:27] Chloe Thompson: I think all teams should be thinking about revenue. And so I think your content needs to be thinking about how does that tie back to revenue, and that’s when you need to make best runs with your marketing operations folks. I think vanity metrics, like if we’re thinking in a more practical term, like if you’re looking at traffic, if you’re looking at engagement, if you’re looking at, you know, content that people are engaging with, those are all obviously really important, but from a trends perspective.

[00:22:52] Chloe Thompson: But in terms of what’s actually moving the needle, the more that you can connect it back to revenue in terms of. I can say very [00:23:00] confidently, right? Like this report that we created drove $3.5 million in pipeline. That’s really impressive. And if you don’t necessarily have the ways to connect the dots through your systems, you know, through Salesforce, HubSpot, et cetera, then what I’ve found is you can actually do this a little bit more anecdotally by educating your teams about.

[00:23:24] Chloe Thompson: Talking about content in their sales deals. So for example, one thing that I used to do was we had an integration with Slack that we had with Salesforce. And those actually, the sales team, you know, we trained them, we taught them mention content. And so it was this case study helped land this deal, they downloaded this ebook, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:23:46] Chloe Thompson: And I could pull those sorts of quotes from our closed one deals and I could say. This piece of content supported a $40,000 deal, right? Like those are the things that are indisputable that I think more [00:24:00] and more content marketers need to be paying attention to.

[00:24:02] Matt Hummel: Chloe, there was something you said in there that I really liked, which is around this idea of vanity metrics.

[00:24:07] Matt Hummel: I’ve always viewed vanity metrics, not as vanity metrics in and of themselves, but it’s leading indicators. And you mentioned the idea of trends, and I think that’s so smart because. Everybody has leading indicators. There’s leading indicators, lagging indicators. If everybody only focused on revenue, then you’d probably miss all the signals that are gonna support whether or not you’re gonna hit your targets or not.

[00:24:30] Chloe Thompson: Exactly. That’s the

[00:24:31] Matt Hummel: same from sales, the same for product. It goes across the board. Right. And so for marketing, you know, it could be. Page impressions, downloads, search ranking, all these different things, right? But I think looking at it from a trends perspective, as long as you’re able to connect the dots in terms of what that impact is expected to be down the road, uh, and again, we don’t live in a perfect funnel world anymore.

[00:24:55] Matt Hummel: I shouldn’t even say anymore. I’m not sure we ever really did, but we know that’s, that myth has been [00:25:00] busted, right? And so this idea. That, oh, as long as I get 200 downloads, then that means I’m gonna get XM, qls and X opportunities. Not necessarily true, but we still know there’s a correlation between activity and impact, and so being able to track that and understand, okay, I’m seeing something off over here.

[00:25:17] Matt Hummel: Let me go inspect that and figure out what’s going on. It’s the same. It’s not just a defensive posture either. There could be, man, we just had a huge spike. What happened? Can we double down on that? Can we scale that? Because, and so to your point though, being best friends with ops, it’s so important because those things are hard to connect the dots on.

[00:25:37] Matt Hummel: You know, absent of somebody who’s got kind of their, their fingers in the whole system.

[00:25:41] Chloe Thompson: Yeah, and what we did at my previous company was, you know, we created Salesforce, a couple different things. We created Salesforce dashboards that linked up to our, you know, our landing pages on our resource library, so we could specifically see how much revenue or how much opportunity was being influenced by, you know, content downloads [00:26:00] and content engagement from an organic perspective.

[00:26:02] Chloe Thompson: But what I found over my time at Reward Gateway was. I spent the first few years trying to prove the worth of organic content or content in general, right? Like, this is the content we’re creating. Okay, here’s how it’s tying back to potential opportunities, et cetera. Here’s how that’s realizing into revenue for the business.

[00:26:23] Chloe Thompson: But then it became, I didn’t have to fight that fight anymore. Because I had proven it out, right? So then it became more of revenue and like shared metrics across the marketing organization. And I think that that is where most modern companies need to be is around more shared metrics. Everyone being aligned, everyone working toward the same goal.

[00:26:45] Chloe Thompson: Because if my goal is just to hit. X thousand organic traffic views, but like what does that actually mean? Right. Or as you said, X downloads or something. I just think it needs to be more about just the bigger [00:27:00] question of is what we’re saying in the market. Actually working, and that’s where content needs to have a voice in terms of here’s what we’re seeing organically here, our most, you know, popular articles, blogs, posts, social, all of that.

[00:27:14] Chloe Thompson: And then how does that bubble up into what we actually need to be doing as a marketing team, and also where we need to pivot. I think that also gets to one other thing that I’ll say is that I think that diversification of content is so incredibly important in this because if you’re only looking at.

[00:27:32] Chloe Thompson: One lens and one channel, and I think I’ve said this on LinkedIn a couple times now, where if you really were only reliant on organic, I mean, you’re panicking right now, right? Because you haven’t figured out the rest of the pieces of the puzzle. And that’s where I also think that that relationship with demand gen, as we referenced earlier, is so critically important.

[00:27:52] Chloe Thompson: Because if content is only in charge of organic page views and organic engagement and this and this and this, like. [00:28:00] You’re not getting the bigger piece of the pie and you’re setting yourself up to fail, I think. Yeah. As as a content organization.

[00:28:08] Matt Hummel: Totally agree. You said something earlier in the show, you described content marketing as the heartbeat of an organization, which.

[00:28:14] Matt Hummel: Uh, I’ve said before and I, so I totally agree with you. It’s, you know, marketing in and of itself often gets viewed as a cost center. I think marketing is the growth engine behind an organization in many cases. Right. And I think content marketing, I agree with your sentiments around it being the Harvey of a company.

[00:28:32] Matt Hummel: You know, a lot of companies, especially kind of in that early stage that you were at with Reward Gateway, they may have brought in their first content marketing director, content marketer. How do you think about what is the role of content marketing? How do you build a case for what it really could be?

[00:28:47] Matt Hummel: Because you’ve got content creation, right? You’ve got, oh, just we need to create blogs, we need to get search rankings. We need to make sure that we’re, we have content for our sales folks. So sales enablement, oh, you’re gonna host the [00:29:00] webinar, right? It, so it starts to kind of create this almost isolated view of what content marketing is, which is just putting content together.

[00:29:09] Matt Hummel: What advice do you have for, maybe it’s a first time content marketing director out there who’s at a small company, they’re the only hire within the content marketing function, has strong beliefs and convictions like you do, but doesn’t really know where to begin to even say company. Here’s what content marketing is and should be, you know?

[00:29:29] Matt Hummel: How do you think about that? What advice would you have?

[00:29:31] Chloe Thompson: I think I’ve been really lucky to be in organizations where. Content was seen as a strategic growth lever, but they didn’t quite know how to get there yet. So part of, as I said, the first few years at Reward Gateway was definitely building that argument through data, and I think that’s something that you absolutely can lean on.

[00:29:52] Chloe Thompson: And if you don’t have the history, the data, the buy-in, I think looking at other organizations [00:30:00] and understanding how they’ve gotten to where they need to be and showing what the power of content. Could be at other organizations can be really helpful. But I also think it still just goes back to you can’t have.

[00:30:14] Chloe Thompson: Demand without some type of content, and I think you really need to make the case for how content links through to the rest of the marketing team and through the rest of the business and show how content can support. Not just marketing, but every other area of the business as well. So for example, like if you’re trying to move, you know, upmarket into enterprise content can help you showcase the best of the best case studies.

[00:30:45] Chloe Thompson: It can help bring in external subject matter experts that may have more of an enterprise voice that you can then pull in your internal subject matter experts and kind of show like, okay, here’s how. Our internal subject matter experts [00:31:00] are in this enterprise space. Even though we’re not even there yet.

[00:31:04] Chloe Thompson: We can walk the walk, we can talk the talk. So I think like understanding how content can push through to what your business is doing is just ultimately one of the most important things you can do. Having those examples of other organizations who you want to be emulating and saying, look how their front and center look how their brand is.

[00:31:23] Chloe Thompson: Look how they’re presenting themselves. Databox comes to mind for sure, like Pete capta has an incredible founder, uh, or CEO brand on Databox, and I think the team’s doing a really great job pushing that narrative.

[00:31:36] Matt Hummel: I’m glad you mentioned brand, because you’ve made the strong connection between. Content and demand, but I, you could make the case that’s the same for brand and it’s almost the chicken or egg, right?

[00:31:46] Matt Hummel: What comes first, brand or content. And to me, you know, the brand is the brand, but how do you actually tell that story? How do you make it something real and memorable? It’s at least in the B2B world, it’s through content. [00:32:00]

[00:32:00] Chloe Thompson: Absolutely. And I mean, I would be nowhere without our creative or design team, right?

[00:32:04] Chloe Thompson: It’s, you know, I. My team and I will, will provide the brief, we’ll provide the words, we’ll provide this, but I mean, I have such high respect for creative directors and designers. When I put together my presentation for Content Marketing World, I used one of our, the former graph designers that I worked with better, and I was like, just help make this, make this something that is presentable.

[00:32:28] Chloe Thompson: And she just brought it to a whole nother level. And I think. Again, kind of understanding like where your expertise is and then leaning on others for their expertise. That’s how you create a really, really strong team and a really strong. Brand and story and just place in, in this like super crowded landscape that we’re in.

[00:32:49] Matt Hummel: Yeah. Love it. Well, this was awesome conversation. I want to transition to our last segment called What’s On Tap. So what’s on tap for Chloe? So at the top of the [00:33:00] show we talked about your favorite pick me up beverage, which if memory serves me correctly, is drink, coffee, do stuff. Did I get that right?

[00:33:06] Chloe Thompson: Yes.

[00:33:07] Chloe Thompson: I’m gonna tag them in this.

[00:33:08] Matt Hummel: I love it. So let’s flip that question around. What’s your favorite drink when you need to unwind? Does it drink alcohol, don’t do stuff? Or is it something different?

[00:33:19] Chloe Thompson: Drink alcohol, do all the things. No, I mean it depends. Uh, I consider myself more of like a social drinker. So if I’m at home trying to unwind when it’s just my dog and I.

[00:33:29] Chloe Thompson: I turn to, uh, moments, which is a non-alcoholic drink that I think is like these adaptogens in it. And I have the still version in my fridge at all times, and my favorite flavor is the blueberry ginger. And sometimes I’ll just pour that into like a rocks glass with an ice cube or something and just sit there.

[00:33:47] Chloe Thompson: And those are fantastic. I’m very social and very extroverted, so you typically will find me out a couple times a week having a glass of wine. Typically, it’s gonna be a vino verde or a Pinot Noir, depending on [00:34:00] what the weather is outside, and I will never pass on a good gin and tonic.

[00:34:05] Matt Hummel: I love it. Well, you mentioned your dog.

[00:34:08] Matt Hummel: We love dogs around here. Tell us about your pup.

[00:34:12] Chloe Thompson: He’s actually tossed out at my feet right now, which is really surprising ’cause two minutes ago he was trying to feverishly jump in my lap. His name is Leo. He has a legendary underbite. Uh, he’s a chihuahua, beagle, staffy, kind of everything under the sun mix.

[00:34:27] Chloe Thompson: I adopted him from. Dixie Girl dog Rescue in 2021 as my Christmas present to myself.

[00:34:33] Matt Hummel: Oh, that’s awesome. So he’s like an everything beagle.

[00:34:37] Chloe Thompson: Yes, he’s, he’s great. Although he doesn’t, he doesn’t like howl like a beagle, which I appreciate. Um, my, my joke fell

[00:34:44] Matt Hummel: short. I was making an like an everything bagel joke, and it fell short.

[00:34:47] Matt Hummel: It fell very short. I’m sorry.

[00:34:49] Chloe Thompson: I mean, everything, bagels are great too.

[00:34:51] Matt Hummel: No, they are, they are. All right. Well, I’m gonna move on from my jokes. So. I heard you had a great, now he wants

[00:34:56] Chloe Thompson: to join. He heard you were talking

[00:34:58] Matt Hummel: about him. Oh, there’s Leo with the, [00:35:00] with the legendary underbite. Oh, I love it. Well, maybe we can sneak a picture of him into the, to the podcast.

[00:35:06] Matt Hummel: Alright, so I heard that you had a great trip to Spain this year. Where’d you go? And what highlights can you share?

[00:35:14] Chloe Thompson: I did. I went with, uh, my good friend Christina, and it was actually right after I, I left my most recent job, so it was kind of a nice way to unwind. Uh, so we were in Barcelona, Madrid, and Sev, or Seville, however you wanna pronounce it.

[00:35:31] Chloe Thompson: We saw flamenco shows. We did, we did a tapas tour in two out of the three cities, the seg Familia. It was incredible. Um, it, it was my first time in Spain and I have to say, I could have spent a month in, in Seia. It was, it was amazing. I

[00:35:46] Matt Hummel: was just gonna say, is Seia not the most incredible town you’ve ever been to?

[00:35:51] Chloe Thompson: It was great. I mean, I just felt like everyone was so friendly. The locals were great. I mean, when I came back to the States, I was just very sad about the food prices [00:36:00] and not being able to get a good glass of wine for like two euros.

[00:36:04] Matt Hummel: I know the wine’s cheaper than the water. It’s crazy. Yeah,

[00:36:07] Chloe Thompson: it is. Yeah.

[00:36:08] Chloe Thompson: We learned that apparently locals do not drink sangria. We were told this on our first tapas tour where said, don’t drink sangria. Instead they drink Tinto Veranos. Which is basically like any sort of red blend wine, and it’s kind of like a sangria. And then they have the Limon Fanta in it, which they don’t sell in the States.

[00:36:28] Chloe Thompson: So my friend and I have been trying to do a little taste test to see how we can get close as possible. There’s an Italian, uh, lemon soda that we’ve tried, and then the sand Pellegrino are in chatta with like, just like a cheap red. We found that that’s pretty close.

[00:36:43] Matt Hummel: That’s awesome. Well, funny story on Spanish wine.

[00:36:46] Matt Hummel: When I was in Spain, this was probably 10 or 12 years ago, pre-children, so it was definitely at least 12 years ago, I went to a bodega to buy some wine. Ended up buying 17 bottles and. [00:37:00] Had to go buy, literally buy another suitcase just to get them home. The whole, the, the funny thing was I went to the bodega, the wine was pretty inexpensive.

[00:37:08] Matt Hummel: I’m like, oh, this is great. I’m just gonna take a bunch. Help. Probably cost me more because of the suitcase price. Regardless. So I get back to the states, I’m going through customs and the guy there is like, do you have any food or drink? And I was like, I I, I brought him a couple wine, you know, wine bottles.

[00:37:22] Matt Hummel: He’s like, cool, get on outta here. I was like, oh, thank goodness.

[00:37:27] Chloe Thompson: Somehow he, he didn’t eat and ask to see your entire suitcase full of

[00:37:30] Matt Hummel: No, and I was living at Texas at the time and I put on my Texas, my thickest Texas accent. I was like, oh man, I’m just so happy to be back in Texas. I’m gonna get some good old Tex-Mex.

[00:37:40] Matt Hummel: And, and so I was like, you know, singing his language and all of a sudden he asked the question. I was like, I, you know, I got a couple wine bottles. He’s like, get on outta here. I was like, oh, thank goodness. And none of the 17 bottles broke, which was remarkable. That’s impressive. I still have a couple left, so.

[00:37:58] Matt Hummel: Oh, wow. Which is even more impressive. [00:38:00] Yeah. So they’re Asian. Are you more of a

[00:38:01] Chloe Thompson: Rioja or a Tempio guy?

[00:38:03] Matt Hummel: Um, yes.

[00:38:06] Chloe Thompson: Great answer. Great answer.

[00:38:07] Matt Hummel: The answer is yes. Alright, well, last question for you. So you are also a volunteer with organizations like Red Cross and Toast to St. Jude. What does that work mean for you and how would you encourage others to get involved?

[00:38:21] Chloe Thompson: Yeah, so actually, uh, this past Saturday I was at the Walk for St. Jude in Boston and I joined The Toast to St. Jude, which is the gala, a local gala that, that we have to raise funds for St. Jude’s each year. I joined that last year because I’d been to the gala the past couple times, and St. Jude’s is a childhood cancer research.

[00:38:41] Chloe Thompson: No family ever pays a bill. It’s an incredible organization and I had gotten to a point in my career where. I was really happy with, you know, where I was, what I was doing, but I wanted more. I wanted to think outside the nine to five or, you know, however work days are. Yeah. You know, categorized these [00:39:00] days.

[00:39:00] Chloe Thompson: And I said to myself when I got to a certain point, I wanted to find a way to just give back outta my nine to five. And so that meant a couple things for me when I hit a certain place. Financially, I started finding a few organizations and upped my contributions to them. So I sponsor a family in Guatemala.

[00:39:19] Chloe Thompson: I contribute to Planned Parenthood, a handful of political, you know, organizations. But money is one thing, time is another. So a really good friend is on the committee. She asked me to join. It’s been a wonderful experience going to the gala the past few years and hearing the patient stories and just all being in one place for an incredible cause is one thing, but being a part of the planning committee and the ones that actually put it on and know that like your work made a difference.

[00:39:50] Chloe Thompson: Is just incredibly important to me. And I gave blood for the first time at Red Cross ’cause I didn’t know what blood type I was and I was curious. Uh, and actually tomorrow I am [00:40:00] going to go be a blood donor ambassador at my first blood drive. So I’m really excited about that. So I just think there are a lot of different ways that you can get involved with your community and while it’s really important to, you know, keep learning and keep your career steady and I’m.

[00:40:16] Chloe Thompson: Career obsessed. Um, probably to a fault. I think it’s important to just think outside your own day to day and that others are going through so much and they’re big ways and small ways that you can help ’em.

[00:40:29] Matt Hummel: I love that. Well, it’s just, yeah, it’s just about getting started. So, and where your passions and.

[00:40:35] Matt Hummel: It’s a great, it’s a great perspective. We get so focused inwardly and there’s so much else out in the world and so many people who need our help. So I love that you’re, you’re doing that and thanks for your perspective.

[00:40:46] Chloe Thompson: And I will say if you do wanna get involved with the toast to St. Jude, if you’re in the Boston area.

[00:40:51] Chloe Thompson: Our first committee meeting is, uh, this week. So if anyone is interested in joining the committee on a volunteer basis, they can definitely reach out to me and, and [00:41:00] I’ll let them know more.

[00:41:01] Matt Hummel: Cool. Well, we will put that link in the show notes as well. So, Chloe, this has been an amazing conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time outta your day to meet with me, and I know our listeners are gonna be getting a ton out of it.

[00:41:11] Matt Hummel: So thank you again.

[00:41:13] Chloe Thompson: Thanks so much for having me, Matt. This was fun.

[00:41:18] Matt Hummel: Thanks again to Chloe for joining us on today’s episode of The Pipeline Brew. I hope you all enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. Please leave me a comment with your thoughts and make sure you subscribe to the show so you’ll never miss an episode. Once again, I’m Matt Hummel and I’ll see you next time.